Where are we on scopes?

H

hecksf

Guest
I have a Leupold 36 (without the locking ring ) on my score gun and I am convinced it is deceiving me.
Are we confident in the Leupold 40x yet?
How about the Sightron and the Weaver?
IS anybody doing modifications on these scopes anymore?
I thought Rattigan and Hoehn were modifying the sightrons.
Ted

PS is their camper parking and electricity at Denton??
 
Ted. I see more people with the Leopold 45X.
Some with the money have March 50X. If they expect heavy mirage, they switch back to the Leopold 45X.
I have a B & L 36X with 4X enhancer.
 
Ted

There is only one thing changed with unmodified scopes since four years ago. That is the introduction of the March.

I say four years ago because that is when many of us started freezing scopes and using external adjustable mounts. As far as I am concerned, if you use any internal adjusment scope besides a March, it will give you trouble sooner or later.

Those that put screws in scopes such as the Sightron, Weaver, B&L, and other "universaL Japanese designs" are not addressing the real problem, which is the gimble joint design that they all share. In fact, I have seen one "modification" that actually puts the erector tube in deflection, because the screws are pushing against the tube with nothing on the other side to back it up.

I think the Tucker conversion on the 36 Leupold is a sound fix, it does address the main problem the erector tube changing position in the gimble joint. But the 36x Leupold is the only scope that lends its self to this type of modification, as it does not share the same gimble pivot design as the Sightron, Weaver,and B&L.

I have switched over to 50x Marches, the seem to be rock solid. Two are on 30 BR's, one on my favorite 6PPC Sporter, and one is a spare. The glass leaves a little to be desired on the 50x March as compered to a 40 x March and the 45x Leupold, but I live with it, knowing the thing isn't moving around.

I have not had first hand knowledge of anyone having a March fail. I have heard stories, but no body seems to willing to swear to it, so untill they do, I consider the March worth the money.

I think the best set-up, other than the March, is the frozen 45x Leupold on Gene Bukys TSI mount. It is very reliable, plus you get that great Leupold Glass. The truth is, it is every bit as good, if not better than a March, but some shooters shy away because adjusments can be a little tedious. But heck, what is that when weighed against a system that does what a Benchrest Sighting System is supposedto do, remain rock solid, all the time, shot after shot. It sure is a great option ifyou happen tohave a Leupold 45x laying around.

Much was said about the winning team at the World Finals using Marches, but remember, the World Champion, Gene Bukys, used a Frozen 45x Leupold on his own external adjustable TSI Mount. Check out his overall aggs compared to just about everybody elses. Sort of speaks for its self.......jackie
 
Ted:

I had Gene Buckys freeze my problem child 40x leopold and provide me with one of his TSI external adjustable mounts. The mount is a little tedious to initially set up, but he gives detailed directions. Since then the scope and adjustments are rock solid. I did really awful at the Buffalo, but that was not the fault of the scope.

I hear March's are super expensive. I would be willing to bet that it would be almost as cheap to buy a Leupold competition, pay Gene to freeze it and provide a TSI mount, as it would be to buy a March.

Bob H.
 
Thanks for the reply's
How much are the new MARCH Scopes?
I checked Kelby's web and couldn't find a price.
I suspect the are well over 2K.
Jackie I guess you sold your forzen scopes and mounts already?
Ted
 
Ted

I still have two, and I am going to keep them, just in case.

As for the price of the March, you will not get much change back from $2200.......jackie
 
Jackie ...

Who's the best at freezing 36X Weavers ??? And, how do I get a hold of him ??? Art :)
 
?? On freezing

When I quit doing it, I turned the operation over to John Hicks in Houston, showed him the ropes. I really do not know if he still does them.

His number is (936) 756-9708.

The Weavers are a great candidate for freezing, once you learn the ins and outs of getting the darned things apart, it is pretty straight forward.

I really should write a article on freezing these things, then those that have access to a small lathe can do them for themselves. A frozen 36x on one of Gene's Mounts is a pretty good set-up.......jackie
 
Much was said about the winning team at the World Finals using Marches, but remember, the World Champion, Gene Bukys, used a Frozen 45x Leupold on his own external adjustable TSI Mount. Check out his overall aggs compared to just about everybody elses. Sort of speaks for its self.......jackie[/QUOTE]

Interesting comment there Jackie. Let's put that into perspective.
Yes, my team all used March scopes, and no doubt the confidence it gave us contributed to our success.

I shot next to Gene for the whole event, and he was shooting like a man on a mission. He probably could have used a cheap Bushnell and done it!!! (Just kidding). My point is that the scope is just a small part of a combination of things required to do any good.

For example, in the individual 2-Gun, Gene won it using his frozen Leupold. Tony B was second, but as his own rifle had quit, he was using Wayne Campbell's rifle which had a D series Leupold on it. Not sure what (if any) mods had been done to it. I was third with a stock 40x March.

Benchrest is a confidence game, and we must have no doubts about any of our gear. For this reason I have bought a 40x March and a 36-55x March - hopefully I can forget about scope troubles now. We will see.


Brendan Atkinson
Australian A Team WBC 10
 
In my opinion

the best one can get right now is a Leupold Competition in the power of one's choice frozen by Brackney in the mounts he sells. The workmanship is superb and the glass in those scopes is super. I have a 40x with crosshairs I used for the first time in Iowa at the Nationals and found it to be absolutely user friendly and stone reliable. They are often offered for sale on the classifieds here. I guess folks are replacing them with Marchs but I don't for the life of me understand why, unless they are using them for some event that requires their knowing exactly how many clicks to put in.

The TSI mount would be a heck of a lot more desireable if the maker would aleviate the verticle adjustment situation. I have a pair of them but they are difficult to use compaired to the Brackney.
 
Can someone point me towards Brackney or Tucker??? Phone number, web site, Email?? I would like to see the external mounts. I have a a 36X Leupold that I would like to get Tuckered. I know a screw runs in the side and holds things together past that I know chit.

I sure wish someone would boost variables like Premier did. No way I can afford a March even if they are the best. Nightforce could loose the ILL reticle, save some weight, save some cost. Give the option of fine cross hair/1/8th dot. I could eat PBJ for a year to get one, could not do it for 2 years for a March.
 
HornetFan

True, Cecil Tucker does place a coil spring and plunger to take the place of the originol arch spring, but the real fix is in the erector tube pivot. The 36x Leupold has a shoulder on the erector tube with a spherical surface that locates on a female shoulder built into the scope tube. The problem is there is no radial support, as the OD of this shoulder has about .005 clearance in the scope tube.

What Cecil does is cut a groove in the erector tube shoulder, and installs a 1/16 o-ring. This o-ring fits rather snug in the scope tube, helping to stabilize the entire assy..............jackie
 
Jackie ...

What happens to the Adjustable Objective ??? Is that completely frozen ??? If so, how do you make up for the lost advantage of overall sight picture clarity that this prominent feature of a scope normally provides ??? Art :)
 
Must be an East-West thing

This locking up of scopes, especially the Leupold Competition Series (LCS) must be an East/West thing. Looking at the equipment lists of the 2009 IBS Nationals, of the top 10 shooters in each Grand Agg the scope count was as follows;

Heavy Bench (UL to some) - 9 Leupold, 1 March.

Light Varmint - 9 Leupold, 1 Weaver.

Heavy Varmint - 7 Leupold, 1 Sightron, 1 Weaver, 1 March.

Sporter - 8 Leupold, 1 Weaver, 1 March.

There may have been some of these Leupold scopes glued but I didn't see any. I did see one locked Weaver and a screw-locked Sightron though.

The one 100/200 yard benchrest shooter that has almost 3 times the HOF points of anyone else, period, uses a unlocked LCS scope. Even at the 2009 Super Shoot, over 300 shooters from all over the world, Mr. B. shot an unlocked LCS to take all the honors.
 
Sight Clarity??

abintx said:
What happens to the Adjustable Objective ??? Is that completely frozen ??? If so, how do you make up for the lost advantage of overall sight picture clarity that this prominent feature of a scope normally provides ??? Art :)
Click to expand...

Art; the prime purpose of the adjustable objective is to dial out parallax. As a matter of fact, many scopes do not give the best target focus when the parallax is adjusted correctly. I do not believe that this feature is frozen. Only the internal erector tube is frozen in place. The field lens adjustment (reticule focus) and the objective lenses are not.

Some expert out there correct me if I'm wrong.

virg
 
Correct

virg said:
Art; the prime purpose of the adjustable objective is to dial out parallax. As a matter of fact, many scopes do not give the best target focus when the parallax is adjusted correctly. I do not believe that this feature is frozen. Only the internal erector tube is frozen in place. The field lens adjustment (reticule focus) and the objective lenses are not.

Some expert out there correct me if I'm wrong.

virg
Click to expand...


only the windage and elevation are locked. I have seen plenty of Leupold comp scopes mess the bed over the past few years so before I owned one I wanted to be sure it would hold point of aim. I don't think it's an East-West thing at all. It's just the sensable thing to do. I don't particulary care what everyone else does, including Obama.
 
For what its worth

I was at one time convinced that some of my scopes were on the brink, and some had past that. With nothing to lose, I froze a Weaver and put
it back on the gun in the original mounts, no adjustments what so ever.
Though it was ackward to have the point of Impact away from where I
was holding, I was able to prove that my loads and tune were not as good as I believed.
 
Bob Kingsbury said:
I was at one time convinced that some of my scopes were on the brink, and some had past that. With nothing to lose, I froze a Weaver and put
it back on the gun in the original mounts, no adjustments what so ever.
Though it was ackward to have the point of Impact away from where I
was holding, I was able to prove that my loads and tune were not as good as I believed.
Click to expand...

LOL...thats the same thing I found out Bob. There are far more out of tune rifles on the line than there are bad scopes.

What Jerry said is very true as well. Here in the east and southeast, most rifles seen are equipped with LCS scopes. Probably because we get to see Tony, Wayne, and some of the other great shooters kick us around a bit more often than in other areas. In the last three Nationals(IBS and NBRSA), a unmodified Competition Leopold scope has accounted for at least 30 HOF points(Tony, Wayne, Harley, Lester). Thats just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are quite a few more.
 
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