What to focus on to improve performance?

It really does come back to the question, how does one improve? Again discounting barrels and bullets.

As I ponder over my results last year, I got to go back to two opportunities which I didn’t execute well. First, not accepting the fact that my tune was going (or gone) when I was shooting mid to large .2’s (mentally blaming it on missing a condition change). Secondly, not going back to the fundamentals of proper barrel/bullet tuning from the get-go.

HOF shooters, any thoughts....?

Lee
 
Since I have shot less than half a dozen group matches in my life and none of them registered, I really can't make a sensible comment on group shooting. I do have some experience in score shooting. When describing benchrest shooting to newcomers I say you start with the best rifle, best loads and the best optics.....and then you deal with the wind. It's my thought that in group shooting the absolute best equipment is necessary as well as the best tune. While wind skills are always important, good bench manners on a fairly calm day might offset some poor wind skills. In score shooting all these things are certainly necessary, but the ability to read the wind is more important than the equipment. It is theoretically possible to win a UBR score match with a rifle that will agg in the .2's or even low .3's. I think it's safe to say that rifle wouldn't have a prayer in a group match. A good wind reader can win with less than the best rifle on the line. A poor wind reader can easily lose with the best rifle on the line. I tend to think this is more important in score than group, but I could be wrong. Either way practice in windy conditions is, to me, the most important one thing you can do to improve the bottom line. We've had more than one new competitor believe he could buy his way to the top. So far that hasn't worked. But time spent shooting over flags does.

Rick
 
Lee Hachigian said:
It really does come back to the question, how does one improve? Again discounting barrels and bullets.
Lee
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Lee....you can't discount barrels and bullets. You're doing something, or have something, that provokes the question to start with. Find that "something" and fix it. Get outside of that box you're in and just fix it!!
 
Just give this some thought

Some shooters are able and willing to devote all the time they need to experminting, flag time, whatever.
ALot of the good stuff comes from seeing what works and what doesn't. That takes alot of time and money to do so. Why would they be willing to give that all up so you can be better at their expense?

That may sound cruel but that's the way I see it. Not saying they won't help you out on the basics, they will.
But don't expect all the little nitty gritty stuff that it takes to win at that level.

Richard Brensing
 
I am far

From shooting as many matches or the caliber of most of you that have commented on Lee's question but I have one take on it.

I personally feel unless you know your way around a lathe and can do work yourself one will never be at the caliber that those who do are. Those are able to machine or improve on what they have. Experiment etc......
 
I have to disagree with the lathe Analogy , all the shoots I shot at this year out east except for St. Louis , I shot a pair of rifles that were built and prepped by Wayne Campbell.Although it doesn’t hurt to be a machinist or a gunsmith it’s not a requirement to win , you do need to get the best equipment you can afford , find a good mentor/ coach, put your ego in a box and then commit to make it a priority to work your butt off , that means a lot of trips to the range as many times a week as possible rain or shine,
As I recall Cal you had a pretty good rifle handed to you at the nationals a few years ago in St. Louis with a similar result
Trigger time , trigger time, tigger time , nothing beats shooting with the clock running

Hugh Williamson
 
Pesky ab said:
.... that means a lot of trips to the range as many times a week as possible rain or shine.
..., nothing beats shooting with the clock running

Hugh Williamson
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Hugh, As I read your post, I was thinking of how I practice. I typically go to the range to tune my guns, not to “shoot” groups. I don’t use a timer, and seldom shoot 5 shot groups until the very end of my practice session. I wonder how the Top Shooters practice, i.e., when not at a match.
 
Pesky ab said:
I have to disagree with the lathe Analogy , all the shoots I shot at this year out east except for St. Louis , I shot a pair of rifles that were built and prepped by Wayne Campbell.Although it doesn’t hurt to be a machinist or a gunsmith it’s not a requirement to win , you do need to get the best equipment you can afford , find a good mentor/ coach, put your ego in a box and then commit to make it a priority to work your butt off , that means a lot of trips to the range as many times a week as possible rain or shine,
As I recall Cal you had a pretty good rifle handed to you at the nationals a few years ago in St. Louis with a similar result
Trigger time , trigger time, tigger time , nothing beats shooting with the clock running

Hugh Williamson
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One advantage to building your own Rifles is you can get something when you want it. I can call Amy at Bruno's on Monday, have a barrel by Thursday, and be ready to go to the Range that week end.

Having the skill and equipment to perform your own work also helps if you participate in more than one Shooting Discipline. I shoot Group, Short Range Score, and 600.yard. Having to depend on someone else to perform your work gets a little overbearing.

But I think it might be a false analogy to think you can build a better Rifle than one of the top Gunsmiths. Yes, you can change things at a whim. You can tinker around with different ideas and concepts, limited only by your own abilities and ingenuity. You can also have the ability to change a component, such as a barrel in a short time if you think one is not up to the task.

But even with my skills as a machinist and the equipment I have at my disposal, to think I can build a better Rifle than somebody like Wayne Campbell, Billy Stevens, Dwight Scott, or any other of the top Craftsmen in this field is simply not true.
 
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As I see it and, I know little of what I talk but, other than having the best of the best equipment and components; it’s all about finding the friendliest condition and, - Speed. Especially at 200.
 
Lee Hachigian said:
Hugh, As I read your post, I was thinking of how I practice. I typically go to the range to tune my guns, not to “shoot” groups. I don’t use a timer, and seldom shoot 5 shot groups until the very end of my practice session. I wonder how the Top Shooters practice, i.e., when not at a match.
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Lee, I never trust a setup untill I have proven it in a Match, on the clock.

I try to set up a Rifle to perform under the same circumstances that are encountered in a Match. If you are shooting in a five shot Group Format, a Rifle has to be competitive in that realm. If it habitually puts 4 in a mid one but tosses one out to three tenths, something is wrong. No miracle is going to happen on Match Day.

I have had Unlimited Barrels that would shoot 5 shot zeros. But, in the ten shot Format, it will toss enough out of the group to where after ten, it's going to measure .280. It's useless for the Region Level Unlimited Format.

In the past years, I have migrated more to the Score Format. It's a different approach to extreme accuracy shooting. As you know, in the Varmint for Score Format, you have to move the Rifle from one aim point to another. This make condition reading paramount, especially at 200 yards. Sure, you can see a favorable condition that you are sighted in for and just bang away, but that's a good way to plant a bunch of nines out there.

Group shooting has evolved to where shooters put a tremendous amount of effort in having the Rifle return to the exact point of aim after each shot. It's the old,....."they give you seven minutes to pick out the 20 seconds you are going to shoot in" syndrome. That seems to work in Group Shooting. But when you have to physically move the Rifle after each shot, you have to be extremely attentive to any change in the conditions.

Like you, I spend a lot of Range time working on the Rifle and it's tune. But, sooner or later, you have to put the clock on the bench and see what will happen.

In short, don't try to convince yourself that a setup is Match worthy when it really is not.
 
jackie schmidt said:
In the past years, I have migrated more to the Score Format. It's a different approach to extreme accuracy shooting. As you know, in the Varmint for Score Format, you have to move the Rifle from one aim point to another. This make condition reading paramount, especially at 200 yards....

But when you have to physically move the Rifle after each shot, you have to be extremely attentive to any change in the conditions.
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Jackie, when you're shooting score, do you try to wait for the same conditions for each shot, or do you hold off based on the conditions? If the latter, do you use the sighter to determine hold-off, or do you "wing it"?

BTW, you're not going to believe this, but you were in one of my dreams last night. Occasionally, I have bad dreams. :)
 
I do my best to practice

With my timer at all times after I THINK I have a tune.

That is my biggest issue I THINK AND AM NOT SURE.

Hugh I will not dispute that a great rifle can be handed to one being built by the top builders. That Nationals in St.Louis was the best I have ever shot in a field of competitors like that. At one point i was within reach of a HOF point.

For me it is after the fact. I trust that they are buidling rifles like they would there own. It is all the little things after that can be done to tweak everything for the game if you have the tooling to do so.

Mentoring I will agree is what I am missing. Maybe one day I will make arangements to take a short drive to North Dakota and spend some time there.

Hunter, when I shoot score if a condition is holding I run just like I would in group. The range that I shoot score at is either pick away or go as fast as you can. The condition may never come back in the 7 minutes. I would rather have 3 or 4shots down range on record and have to find 1 or 2 on the sighter.

JMO
 
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In the end . . .

It's all about self-discipline: "there it is", as opposed to, "it'll go . . ."! ;-) Keep 'em ON the X! RG
 
I'm envious of you guys...

...because I don't know what I don't know. At least many of you guys have a handle on where to look and what to do when those groups are just not up to snuff. While many of you strive to shoot in the 0's and 1's, I'd be happy if I could consistently shoot low 2's. All I ever do is chase tune. It could be a myriad of problems I'm encountering. Bullets, bullet seating depth, powder charge, poor bench manners, wind, reloading technique, etc etc. I'm not experienced enough to even diagnose the problem in most cases, so I spend a lot of time chasing my tail.
 
Hunter said:
Jackie, when you're shooting score, do you try to wait for the same conditions for each shot, or do you hold off based on the conditions? If the latter, do you use the sighter to determine hold-off, or do you "wing it"?

BTW, you're not going to believe this, but you were in one of my dreams last night. Occasionally, I have bad dreams. :)
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Hunter, I might not be the guy to be asking about this, because I am a "hunter and picker". It serves me well in the Score Format, but 98 percent of today's Benchrest Shooters adhere to the "run and gun" philosophy of Benchrest.

That is why I am so particular about my flag set up and my flags.
At 100, I will try to get the shots down in the exact condition I am sighted for to keep it on the X. Even if it takes the full seven minutes. I will already know the hold if the ebb and flow of the condition changes, so I try to stay off of the sighter. Fact is, if we are in a match where I never take the Rifle out of the bags, I will often go right to the record and never hit the sighters at all.

200 is a different animal. My rule is, "shoot for X's at 100, Score at 200".

In this part of the country, to win at 100, you have to have a Rifle and the preparedness to hit 22 X's on a consistent basis. It makes no difference if you are at a Region Championship or a local Club Match.

In one match at Lake Charles last year, I lost a Match with a 499 36x. I had 22 X's at 100, and 14 at 200. Unfortunately, I missed the 10 ring with a shot at 200. I got all excited about hitting a 500 high X count that I forgot the first rule of Score. Hit the 10 ring first.

So what I do at 200 is work the sighter and hold accordingly in an attempt to keep it on the ten ring, settling for what ever X count I can get.

I Shot 16 Score Matches last year. In my opinion, 75 percent of the Rifles at those Matches had no chance of winning, no matter who was at the Bench.
Which brings us to a point. How accurate does a VFS Rifle have to be.

In my opinion, it has to be capable of a .200 Agg capability to cosistantlt stay in the high X count that is required in VFS. When I practice, I always shoot some groups to insure the Rifle is working. I then hang Score Targets and shoot for 5 X's on every target. If you can't do it in practice, you darned sure aren't going to do it in a Match.
 
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