what Cal

...Tell us what happened in Australia after your guns got taken away with regards to knives,swords and crime?
In your world everything was roses correct?
Nobody acted uncivilised correct?
Nobody reverted back to the ways of our ancestors correct? If you refuse to answer what happened I will post a link.
Lynn
Lynn,

Not sure what you are referring to. If what you are going to reveal is going to play into the hands of the anti-gun lobby, then please think about that.

Back on the subject of LR deer shooting, the vast majority of shooters will never be able to master the many facets (e.g. accurate equipment, wind-reading skills, expert spotter, ideal location) required to reliably shoot deer at 1000yds, which seems to be the benchmark for discussion on the subject. The advice (well-meaning but naive) seems to be don't do it until you have the skills and the right equipment. The problem is, there is nothing to prevent almost anyone from attempting it, because this is basically an unsupervised sport. Obviously there are no statistics, but from my experience of LR shooting, deer shooting and last but not least human nature, about 90% of shots taken at 1000yds will be clean misses (good), 2% will kill it immediately (great), and the other 8% will wound the animal to various degrees of prolonged suffering (bad).

Promoting that 1000yd kills can be done will encourage the irresponsible to give it a try, regardless of their level of skill, with the resulting condemnation by the masses (not just the "whining pit-smelling liberals" Al). Then will come regulation from governments, because we are failing to regulate our own behaviour, and while they're doing it, they might as well give in to the anti-gun extremists and take something else away from all shooters.

You can't expect the pro-shooting lobby to defend what is virtually impossible to defend. It will undermine their credibility and we will all lose.

Alan
 
Alan Alan Alan

"Not sure what you are referring to. If what you are going to reveal is going to play into the hands of the anti-gun lobby, then please think about that."

Alan me thinks you are not being very truthful.Our evening news over here reports a dramatic increase in knife and sword attacks on YOUR citizens since guns have been banned.Not knowing your own countries reality about gun laws tells me something isn't quite right here.You also fail to mention that Swords have now been banned because your citizens are being attacked by them.Over here we read about what banning guns has done to your country and none of it is positive or remotely good.We have heard what Howard had to say about america and its evil guns so lets not blow any smoke anywhere.Also please don't help us out until you fix your own problems first.
Lynn
 
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Lynn,

Not sure what you have been hearing - I don't generally believe any of the stats about guns on the news - they are generally framed to favour one side or the other. But, I agree with you - Australia's gun laws are bad for responsible shooters. It is now much harder to own a gun, and much more expensive to keep it. Believe me, I'm passionate about shooting LR F-Class, and have shot many deer. I am sorry that one of your passions happens to be ultra LR deer shooting - for the reasons given in my previous post, I would not like to see your sport promoted on mainstream forums like this one - it implies that it is accepted widely by shooters, which I don't believe is the case. You are doing your best to promote it - I am trying to give some balance to the argument. I say again it would be better if this thread was deleted.

Alan
 
Lynn-4Mesh-Joe Salt

We all should be thankfull for explaining how it's done. If anything, that may have helped some of those who havn't got the knowledge, the skills nor the equipment to do the job right, but still have the ego to have a go, even with an old 98 Mauser.
Maybe someone who was readding this advice have had finally realised that to do the job right at 1K that's not just as simple as to aim and pull the trigger. We all need to see some positivity, rather than the negativity.
My thanks to all of you guys for sticking on and not abandonning the post after I called you imbeciles.
Only a whimp pisses off and reaches for the "ignore button" as soon as something differs from his/hers opinion.
Good on you guys, for showing a great sportsmanship.

Shoot well
Peter
 
For those who haven't been exposed to true Long Range Hunting as presented by Lynn and others........


Dan Lilja has a nice explanation of the sport of long-range hunting here (( http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/long_range_shooting.htm )) and from reading it you'll see that done CORRECTLY it's as ethical as any form of hunting, just a LOT more expensive than most to get set up!


I feel that no matter HOW we choose to hunt we must present our case well and with no apology. We American hunters DO pay for our game management programs with our hard-earned cash. I further believe that it is incumbent upon us to make every attempt to harvest (kill) cleanly and with little waste.


Now, when I meet someone who's a true vegan, someone who neither eats meat nor indulges in ANY practice which includes the killing of animals then I give him more credence than most. If a person is truly convinced that the "harvesting of animals" is wrong, if they don't eat chicken or fish, if they don't wear leather or use animal glues or accept medicine which is the result of animal testing..............if they don't use soaps and shampoos from the common market but are convicted to buy only plant-based supplies and clothing.......then I'm forced to concede that their stance is tenable. I respect their beliefs. What bothers me is the innate hypocrisy and ignorance exhibited by MOST "non-hunters". My job is to gently and firmly try to show them the error of their ways, generally while working from their upwind side as they most often SMELL like barbarians....... :D ......and yes I've met a lot of them. I live in an affluent area of the country where most of the so-called "Sporting Goods Stores" no longer carry guns. I don't get all up in people's faces until THEY try to condemn ME, then once the ice is broken and we've made some respective points and established a rapport I try to get them to find their moral high ground. There's no better argument than the one made by someone TRYING to prove their case and failing.


On the subject of the animals themselves, I'm not much of a pet person..........not because I hate animals but because I feel that a pet deserves our care and respect and must be trained and treated "like a child". NO I don't mean to give animals the same worth as people, but IMO any pet from a lizard to a dog must be treated as family and for ME I've got my hands full with my kids! :) I can't or won't dedicate proper time and attention to a pet. My wife and I both laugh at the idea but we agree that when our kids/grandkids are gone we'll probably have to adopt some yappy little mongrel to fill the void. :) Many anti-hunters I find to be pet-people and their main beef is that "because I love my pet (and all other animals) I can't see how you can kill them"..... A nice conversation goes a long way toward making them understand that no one in their right mind hunts because they enjoy killing, this defines a psychopath. We're meat eaters. Even varmint hunting though serves a purpose, the farmers where I hunt squirrels and badgers are losing revenue (or, more bluntly they're losing my FAVORITE meat, COW!!!) due to ecosystem's being destroyed by the little pests. They find it weird that we'll drive long distances to shoot the liddle fuzzy critters at our own expense but they'd much rather that than have to pay a government control agent to poison the buggers.


We respect the animals that we hunt, most anti-hunters don't realize this. And on the subject of respect and ethics, having hunted "conventionally" with a rifle as well as with a bow and using long-range techniques I personally have experienced MUCH more "slob-hunting" amongst the traditional rifle hunting crowd.



Now, Alan........ :) ........regarding the reference to primal instinct VS civilised behavior. I used the term MAN. This term has been bent, spindled, mutilated and androgynized (I just made that one up :eek: ) to where we civilized men cower just a little at the term, we back down from "admitting" that we're men......... We're so intent on proving that we're NOT drunken wife-beating rednecks that we forget to be MEN! Society has so convinced us that being a man is "wrong" that if we see a kid get into a car with an adult male we look askance! In fact, I was just watching "Bridge To Terebithia" the movie with my kids and there's a scene where a WOMAN teacher takes a young teenage boy to a museum........a beautifully played scene, loving and sensitive.......a portrayal of a fine teacher going over and above to help out a teenage boy.......and we adults ALL waited for the "bad thing" to happen!


It didn't.



LOOK AROUND!!! There are fine MEN and WOMEN all around us. In fact it's SAFER now to let your kid roam around the backroads than it EVER was when we were kids but we've been convinced that there are molesters and kidnappers around every corner. The whole milk carton campaign of the 80's about "missing children" was a politically motivated farce. There has never really been a "market" for little kids! And if there ARE perverts around then it's up to MEN to take the problem in hand.........and if there ARE "hunters" who're being unethical, no matter how they're doing it it's up to MEN to teach them a better way! I've had many (hundreds?) of adults leave our Hunter Ed classes, many of them having just set through waiting for their kids who're taking the class, that come around shaking our hands and shaking their heads because they've been shown that the hunting methods that they've been raised with were unsportsmanlike.



EDUCATION is the key.............and a concerted, united and unapologetic stance regarding sportsmanship and hunting.



And it ain't all about hunting. I watched Pat Belichick of the New England Patriots storm off the field today and was glad that my kids aren't sportsfans.....what a steenking sore loser! Dude needs to sit through and PASS a Hunter Education course! :)



Good nite all.....


al
 
Now, Alan........ :) ........regarding the reference to primal instinct VS civilised behavior. I used the term MAN. This term has been bent, spindled, mutilated and androgynized (I just made that one up :eek: ) to where we civilized men cower just a little at the term, we back down from "admitting" that we're men......... We're so intent on proving that we're NOT drunken wife-beating rednecks that we forget to be MEN! Society has so convinced us that being a man is "wrong" that if we see a kid get into a car with an adult male we look askance! In fact, I was just watching "Bridge To Terebithia" the movie with my kids and there's a scene where a WOMAN teacher takes a young teenage boy to a museum........a beautifully played scene, loving and sensitive.......a portrayal of a fine teacher going over and above to help out a teenage boy.......and we adults ALL waited for the "bad thing" to happen!

It didn't.

LOOK AROUND!!! There are fine MEN and WOMEN all around us. In fact it's SAFER now to let your kid roam around the backroads than it EVER was when we were kids but we've been convinced that there are molesters and kidnappers around every corner. The whole milk carton campaign of the 80's about "missing children" was a politically motivated farce. There has never really been a "market" for little kids! And if there ARE perverts around then it's up to MEN to take the problem in hand.........and if there ARE "hunters" who're being unethical, no matter how they're doing it it's up to MEN to teach them a better way! I've had many (hundreds?) of adults leave our Hunter Ed classes, many of them having just set through waiting for their kids who're taking the class, that come around shaking our hands and shaking their heads because they've been shown that the hunting methods that they've been raised with were unsportsmanlike.

EDUCATION is the key.............and a concerted, united and unapologetic stance regarding sportsmanship and hunting.

And it ain't all about hunting. I watched Pat Belichick of the New England Patriots storm off the field today and was glad that my kids aren't sportsfans.....what a steenking sore loser! Dude needs to sit through and PASS a Hunter Education course! :)
...

There is a lot of truth in what you say Al. These are confusing times for us blokes. We're only allowed to be men when it suits e.g. when there's big trouble. At all other times we must act civilised. The problem is, we tend to get out of practice for when we need to be men.

Alan
 
Hey Lynn

Trouble is too many people believe that BS about the pen beeing mightier than the sword. If that is true, pens are very dangerous, where is the anti pen lobby. My elder sister, born country, turned city, says that I am the only person she knows, who thinks he needs a gun.

SHOOT STRAIGHT MATE.
 
Lynn -

Since it sounds like you set up in the same big bowl, why couldn't you use a bunch of wind flags? I was thinking of something low-tech, like 10' sticks of 1/2" emt with surveyor's tape... Set up a dozen or so in the summer and let the game get used to them.

Alinwa -

Amen brother. You've got it right.

You must have the patience of Job to exist and raise kids in the lovely state of Washington. Every time I go over to visit for any length of time I get overwhelmed by the It Takes A Village Crowd. I applaud you for taking the time to reason with that PC bunch. You're a real ambassador for us shooters. If cornered, I usually just tell them to F___ off. Upon some reflection, I admit your approach is far better in the long run. I vow to marshal my thoughts, be prepared, and try not to lose my temper.

____
While this thread has evolved into something not precisely related to 1000yd BR, I'm glad to have stumbled onto it. Ethics are important to me in all areas. In regard to LR hunting, each person's skill, dedication, conditions,and equipment are factors in their personal yardage limit. We do not need some one size fits all, generic, PC yardage limit to determine whether we are being "sportsmanlike".

Like many, when I started hunting with Grandad's 30-30 forty some years ago, 100 yards was all she wrote. As time passed, and my skill and equipment improved, my self-imposed yardage limit has naturally lengthened. On elk, I now feel confidant to take a 500 yard shot, if conditions are near perfect. Do I take that shot if the wind is switchy/quartering? NO. Do I take that shot if he's moving? NO. Do I take that same shot on a deer? NO. Do I think that my skill and equipment is ultimate, or that my yardage limitations should be used for everyone? HELL NO.

Obviously, guys like Lynn have taken a lot they have learned in LR BR and moved the LR hunting bar up for themselves. Big investments of time, skill and $ involved. I'm going to assume that a humane and effective kill is very important to them as it is to me. For myself, what I've got going is working pretty well. I doubt I'll ever invest in a 1000 yard hunting set-up. Now if Barnes ever releases the MRX in 8mm, I might be able to extend out to 550 or so.

Slob hunters come in many forms and I dislike them all. Personally, I feel obligated to get involved if I run across them in action. However, I don't think taking a long shot (even 1000 yards) automaticly qualifies a hunter as a slob.
 
Krap...i'm Back

Just a thought for those of you thinking that it would be bad for the whole gun world for us to promote the "un-sportsman-un ethical" NON-sport of LR hunting...


For the love of god.....have you been to a sporting goods store in the last 5 years? Remington promotes LR hunting guns...Winchester has heavy bbl LR hunting guns....Weatherby has their big heavy bbl LR guns......LAZERONI......CZ......EVERYONE SELLS THEM.........EVERYONE! Even the top gunsmiths promote them.

Don't tell me I am doing the shooting sports wrong because of what I do or write on this fourm......when the entire shooting industry thinks it is ok to sell and promote "Long Range" firearms !!!


Now.....I have never seen an instruction manual with these guns (or scopes, for that matter). I know of several "long range hunters" (lol) who tell me how to do it..."you see...you zero your gun at 100 yards. Then you reset your turret so that is on "1". thats it..turn it to "2" and you are zeroed at 200....set it at "8" and you are good to go "out to 800" ..."10" and you are good to go out to 1000".:eek: Mind you, they never have tried it on paper, "but I guarantee that it works in the field" My response to them (with a straight face mind you) If you are good all the way out to 1000 yards, then why not just leave them set on "10" ?? That way you never have to do any dialing...you are good to go for any distance...just point and shoot!!!!:D

I place these guys and you "true sportsman" in the same catigory.....wrong as you are. You are set in your ways and your beliefs. To try and educate you or to convince you is a big waist of time.

SO DON'T BLAME US....THE GUYS WHO JUST MIGHT HAVE A CLUE ON THIS SUBJECT....FOR PROMOTING...WHATEVER IT IS YOU THINK WE ARE PROMOTING,... WHICH, ACCORDING TO YOU "ETHICAL" SHOOTERS, IS GOING TO BRING THE END TO HUNTING AND THE SHOOTING SPORTS FOREVER, WHEN THE INDUSTRY ITSELF DOES THE SAME THING.

TOD
 
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The way I was taught, hunting is a PRIVILEDGE not a right. That priviledge is afforded us mostly by non-hunters who any year now could vote to REMOVE that priviledge from our comfortable lives.

Depends on your state. In VA they passed an amendment about 5 yrs ago making it a right to hunt and fish.

BH
 
Everybody

To the guys in Australia.
When the Port Arthur massacre happened and you had a anti gun prime minister with an agenda you were doomed.I don't understand your political system all that well but you need to get rid of the anti's from the top down.When your cities went to the suburbs you were doomed just like here.Suburbanites want the city life in the country and they vote.

Hayseed
The bowl we set up in is across a deep steep canyon with a creek in the bottom.We have 3 trails cut into it and each winter we take care of the deer.At this point every rock and bush has its own name and distance fully established so there is no guess-work.Flags don't last and they draw attention to our spot.
The unethical shortrange deer hunters usually kill a doe or two each year and let them lay.

Alan
A man is always a man!!!!!!
When you are allowed to be a man some of the time your really just a kept man and not a real man.
My first wife didn't want deer heads hanging in her house
so she was politely asked to leave my house.Yes those deer heads are still hanging and she is still single.Tells all of her friends what happened and they are usually split 50-50 on who was correct.When one of them asks me if I was being harsh I tell them I was being honest.
Lynn
 
Excellent reading.

I've never had many opportunities to take game at those ranges, but I have always wanted to. I have seen some nice moose at those ranges, but was more afraid of having to lug them that far. I usually try to anchor them near the road with my 35 whelen.

It's amazing how many people wound deer at 50 yards where I live, simply because they do not take the time to check their zero. Now I'm the first one to B**** at them.

So, for all you morally superior "sportsmen" think about this:

Why is bow hunting legal/ethical? I know some good archers that wound 25% or more of their animals, simply because of the adversity involved with archery. It's funny the hunting channel never shows the gut shots.

How bout black powder? I remember one of my first bucks floundering with a broken back, while I scrambled for a second shot. Should that be illegal too?

I especially like the Kangaroo head shot law, that's the stupidest hunting law I've ever heard. That must have been from the same loser that disarmed the rest of the general public down there? Have you ever seen a deer that starved to death because its jaw was blown off, I have? How bout a Kangaroo?

So, I say, if you prepare and plan to make long range shots on animals, including practicing shooting in the field in the off season, reloading, carrying a sufficient rifle etc. I say, go for it!

Back to the question.

If I were going to build a rifle for 1000 yard animals, it would be a 7mm stw, 300 mag, short mag or RUM,338 Lapua, mag or ultra mag, 8mm remington mag. of course, with higher twist rates.
 
We're going the wrong direction

Tod, the big gun making corporations are only interested in two things: Demand/trend and how to make the most money out of that demand/trend now, by getting the guns out the door now. Not next year or any other year. If there is an another trend, or that type of hunting becomes illegal, fine for them, there will be a new demand/trend created and they have plenty of a new market to fill. Only thing what they have to do is to make the type of gun that will go out the door as quickly as possible to support the demand.
When I saw some Australian news on the TV when they had their semis made illegal, there were some imbecile shooters saying, "Why I have to have my semis confiscated, when I can shoot just as fast with my lever or a pump action". Even the head of the Australian Rifle Association was saying something along these lines on the Aust.TV. What an imbecile he was. I think that they banned the pump and the lever actions there as well as the semiautomatics.
I don't shoot shotguns or .22, but I won't be saying that they can be banned just because I don't used them and if they are banned it won't effect me at all.
When I was in the USA I saw on their TV few hunting scenes where two imbeciles were shooting .500 A Square BA and .577 Nitro Double respectively and it took them 3-4 shots from less than 50 metres to finally kill a spine shot paralysed african medium size animal. Disturbing? Absolutely, at least to me it was anyway?
Did they have the right equipment to do the job right? Absolutely.
Did they have the skills? What skills??? Yes, they were both imbeciles.
I one wants to be fair he/she needs to have an open mind and see, that the distance here means absolutely nothing. It's the shooting skills of the individual with the right tool what makes all the difference to do the job right.

Shoot well
Peter
 
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Tod Soeby,


I don't completely disagree with you, but THIS is Wilbur Harris' 1000yd BR Board not some hut set up at the Sportsman's Show. I make the assumption that anyone smart enough to ask here is looking for real answers. Done properly there's nothing wrong with long-range hunting. It's expensive. It requires a large commitment of time as well as the money. But it's just as ethical as any other type of hunting, done well.



hayseed,


Thanks for the kind words. I've got friends and relatives (not necessarily the same thing ;) ) in Kalispell and an open invite to come and shoot (harvest, kill, slaughter) prairie dogs in your area, I've just not had the time. Here's how I remember Kalispell........we were taking a winter run back to MN, my wife and three kids in a Honda Accord........We hit wicked black ice outside Spokane and by Coeur D'Alene we were edgy and feeling a little chill in the air. About 11:00PM we'd just poured out through the gap east of Missoula and were sliding down that long grade looking for a new radio station when we found one on the AM dial......"currently the temp in Kalispell is 47 degrees below zero"........


I just chickened right out. We caught a motel in Butte or Bozeman and I got up every other hour to start the car......the last stretch between 5:00AM and 7:00AM I let it slide a little while we showered up and when I went out to start it, it went rump-ruuu u u m p--- r uu uu mm pp ------r arROOOMM!!! And I was never so happy :)


We didn't shut down for 1200miles, until we hit Mom and Dad's house. Then we took the badd'ry inside every nite, no worries.



I don't miss the cold! :)



And lastly THIS quote >>> "The problem is, we tend to get out of practice for when we need to be men." <<<



Preach ON Bruthah ALAN!!! And this is why I say, WE NEED MORE TED NUGENTS! We need to be reminded that eternal vigilance is required, but that we ARE men by birth. Let's not trample out birthright nor allow others to tread it into oblivion.


YES we've been slothful.
YES we've abused our privilege.
YES we've been led far from our Fathers' vision........


And now it's time for this generation to smarten up and hit the reset button. We need to SHOW, to PROVE and to EARN our "due respect" ......... actually there ain't no respect "due" anyone so it's up to every one of us to get it out there. AND it's time for us to give each other credence. "Us" is HUNTERS and SHOOTERS of all stripes, as long as we're ethical and safe.


Go back and search "Jim Zumbo" to see what happens when one of "us" turns on the rest of us.......Jim's out of a job because he "didn't like" black rifles.



al
 
Tod Soeby,


I don't completely disagree with you, but THIS is Wilbur Harris' 1000yd BR Board not some hut set up at the Sportsman's Show. I make the assumption that anyone smart enough to ask here is looking for real answers. Done properly there's nothing wrong with long-range hunting. It's expensive. It requires a large commitment of time as well as the money. But it's just as ethical as any other type of hunting, done well.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALINWA.....PLEASE READ, OR RE-READ, MY FIRST FEW POSTS ON THIS SUBJECT!!! I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

I THINK IT WAS ME THAT GAVE THE ORIGINAL POSTER A BETTER ANSWER THAN "wrong form" OR "bad sportsman" LIKE EVERY ONE EXCEPT LYNN DID. I BELIEVE IT WAS ME WHO FIRST SAID THAT IT WAS WAY, WAY MORE THAN "WHAT CALIBER" AND WAS GOING TO BE TIME CONSUMING AND E-X-P-E-N-S-I-V-E!!! NO CORNERS CUT......I BELIEVE I DID GIVE HIM SOME "REAL" ANSWERS.......SO WHAT IN THE HECK ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY???

I WILL MAKE IT SIMPLE FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND, PROVIDED YOU SPEAK OUR NATIVE TOUNGE.....I LOVE LR HUNTING....I THINK, DONE RIGHT AND TAKEN SERIOUS, IS JUST AS SPORTSMAN-LIKE AS THE HI-TECH BOW HUNTER OR ANYONE ELSE THAT USES POST 1900 TECHNOLOGY!! I LOVE IT, AND I PROMOTE IT (again, if done right) .

I THOUGHT THAT I HAD A SHORT MEMORY!!:eek::eek::eek:

AGAIN PLEASE READ ALL OF MY POST'S.....START ON PAGE ONE, AND END ON YOUR LAST POST......THEN YOU CAN BETTER EXPLAIN YOUR REPLY TO ME.

TOD

PS. I am not trying to be funny or a smart ass, but who is Wilbur Harris?:confused:

PSS I just looked back to page one and your first reply was some smart-ass remark about mauser actions. That probably wasn't the "REAL" answer yamadogs was looking for , now was it. We didn't get to here from you again untill page 6 (uless I missed something) That answer had nothing to do with the initial question either, did it? So don't sit here and tell us that you give answers to "real" questions!!! WE CAN READ
 
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Tod
Wilbur Harris is the generous man who owns this site and allows us to post here.

I had to read your previous post 2 or 3 times before I understood what you were saying, I think Al replied before he understood your meaning in that post.
The original poster said he was planning on using a Mauser action.
James
 
Hopefully this is my final say on this thread...

To use Peter's term, there are many imbeciles in various shooting sports. And they stuff it up for the rest of us, probably nearly as much as the criminal use of guns. My class of shooting is F-Class, which is shot with single shot rifles on full-bore ranges under close supervision at all times. No doubt benchrest and most other forms of target shooting are similar. From society's point of view, target shooting is hardly more offensive than golf.

What irks me is that my sport cops part of blame for the behaviour of imbeciles in other shooting sports. Now, I hear it said that "all shooters should stick together" - sorry but that approach doesn't work for me any more. I'd be okay with "all responsible shooters should stick together" so long as it was understood who the opposition is: (1) irresponsible shooters and (2) the anti-gun lobby (take note of the order).

If we had more SHOOTERS who were prepared to speak out against the imbeciles, rather than say nothing, or even defend them, we might get somewhere. The main reason for my opposition to LR hunting on this thread, is because it will attract imbeciles who think they can just go out and do it. If that particular sport had a way of regulating the behaviour of its members fine - but I can't think of a way short of requiring extensive training and a licence. So think on that one Lynn - how best can you keep the imbeciles out of LR hunting?

Alan
 
Alan F

Alan
"Hopefully this is my final say on this thread"

I 100% agree this should be your last post about longrange hunting.You have no,zero,nada knowledge of what you are talking about and you have no first hand experience.

"target shooting is hardly more offensive than golf"

I don't know what planet you are on but you have obviously never tried opening a shooting range in a big city before.

So think on that one Lynn - how best can you keep the imbeciles out of LR hunting?

Alan your complete lack of knowledge of longrange hunting is showing.Most imbeciles (to borrow Peters description of myself) who hunt do it at shortrange.

This post has drawn over 100 replies and thousands of views and you are still the only one here not getting it.The imbeciles are hunting shortrange.The imbeciles don't have what it takes for longrange.The reason you have such restrictive rules and regulations is because your prime minister is an imbecile.

Nobody knows the difference between hunting and longrange hunting except for the very small number of people who are actually doing it.It isn't advertised.It isn't in the rules or regulations.

United we rise divided we fall comes to mind here.If you don't do it that is fine just don't come here and tell me I can't or you won't support it.
I don't shoot F-Class but I'm not telling you it should be stopped.You do what you want and you let me do what I want.As soon as longrange hunting gets banned do you want me petitioning to ban all F-Class matches because they aren't necessary? Why do you need to shoot that far anyway? Are you planning on doing something bad? You only need a rifle capable of taking game to 125 yards so your rifle shouldn't be legal either.

Now Alan I know your not going to understand any of what I just wrote but remember this---divided we fall.
Lynn
 
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A 6" group always w'll be a 6" group regardless

if it's shot at 20metres or a 1000metres. No one who is fair can tell a bloke who's capable of shooting a 6" group at 1K that he is less responsible hunter than the bloke who is only capable to shoot 6" group at 20metres. As long as both types of these hunters don't exceed their skills/equipment limits there is no other technical difference except the distance that they hunt at. A 90years old granny drives her car safely at 40km/h, F1 racing car driver drives his F1 racing car safely at 300km/h. As long as they both don't exceed their skills/equipment limits they are both responsible drivers.
The 20metre hunter doesn't need to know anything, the same goes for the 40km/h 90years old granny. The 1K hunter needs to know anything and everything and it still sometimes may not be enough, the same goes for the F1 racing car driver.
I know that I'll never be 1K hunter, nor a F1 racing car driver, but I'll give my support to any hunter/driver who doesn't exceed his/hers limits and has the right attitude to be responsible. Regardless if it's hunting at 20metres or 1000metres. Did I changed? NO. I've just learned something here, that I didn't know before. Fair must be Fair and equal to everyone.

Shoot well
Peter
 
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