What are you guys using for resizing lube?
- Thread starter SShooterZ
- Start date
Al, I put quotes around "better." Still do. I say better because if you don't have to run the case quite as far into the die, that's "better."
I have no idea where you got the idea I use a think coat. I put it on with one finger. Middle finger, left hand, if you must know. Same finger I use to use for inconsiderate drivers.
Messy? Maybe a bit. But remember, it cleans up with water.
If you're wedded to Imperial, consider some "Web Wipes," made to clean the plates on offset printing presses. Closest thing I ever saw to no-scratch, absorbent, cotton sandpaper.
Al, I use a thingy. Or is it a gizzy? Whatever.
Test:
1. Set the die to your normal position -- already determined, for most of us.
2. Clean the inside of the die.
3. Using Lube A, size the case.
4. Do more than one case.
5. Measure them with gizmo/thingy.
Repeat (including cleaning) with lube B.
The one that gives the most head clearance is "better" -- though not really. If there is a lube that results in more consistent readings, that would be better. In my setup, both lubes gave consistent readings, but using the Imperial, the measurement was half a thousandth or so longer -- i.e., "it didn't size as much." Call it press deflection if you like.
YMMV, or you may not like the test. Or try it.
Test:
1. Set the die to your normal position -- already determined, for most of us.
2. Clean the inside of the die.
3. Using Lube A, size the case.
4. Do more than one case.
5. Measure them with gizmo/thingy.
Repeat (including cleaning) with lube B.
The one that gives the most head clearance is "better" -- though not really. If there is a lube that results in more consistent readings, that would be better. In my setup, both lubes gave consistent readings, but using the Imperial, the measurement was half a thousandth or so longer -- i.e., "it didn't size as much." Call it press deflection if you like.
YMMV, or you may not like the test. Or try it.
Al, we're not talking about heads, but head *clearance*. Or maybe I'm missing something. Maybe my head is thicker.
Two sized cases. Die in the same position, only the lube is different.
Clean off all the lube
Measure the cases with the gizzy.
One measures less.
To paraphrase Tina Turner (and proving myself a capable straight man), What's thicker got to do with it?
Two sized cases. Die in the same position, only the lube is different.
Clean off all the lube
Measure the cases with the gizzy.
One measures less.
To paraphrase Tina Turner (and proving myself a capable straight man), What's thicker got to do with it?
Boyd Allen
Active member
Charles,
If I may back up a bit... I am sure that you are familiar with the situation where a die that has been adjusted to touch the shell holder (at top of ram stroke) no longer does when a case that is being sized in in place. (A long time ago, FL sizing a .220 Swift the gap accommodated a .006 feeler gauge.) This linkage compression/ frame stretch (?) that produces this gap is a function of the force required to insert an unsized case into a FL die....and varies with the force required.This is why Redding makes the sets of competition shell holders. If your setup has light contact between the shell holder and the die, "headspace" runout is reduced. If they do not touch, less case friction in the die lessens the gap. The case goes slightly farther into the die. I can feel a difference in effort required to size cases with the lightest and heaviest lube coatings.
Another little experiment that you might try... Size some of the same lot of cases so that there is no pause at the top of the stroke, and for the rest pause there for a ten count. Calculate the mean relative "headspace" for each group, and compare. Let us know what you find. The difference will be more obvious with more work hardened brass.
Boyd
If I may back up a bit... I am sure that you are familiar with the situation where a die that has been adjusted to touch the shell holder (at top of ram stroke) no longer does when a case that is being sized in in place. (A long time ago, FL sizing a .220 Swift the gap accommodated a .006 feeler gauge.) This linkage compression/ frame stretch (?) that produces this gap is a function of the force required to insert an unsized case into a FL die....and varies with the force required.This is why Redding makes the sets of competition shell holders. If your setup has light contact between the shell holder and the die, "headspace" runout is reduced. If they do not touch, less case friction in the die lessens the gap. The case goes slightly farther into the die. I can feel a difference in effort required to size cases with the lightest and heaviest lube coatings.
Another little experiment that you might try... Size some of the same lot of cases so that there is no pause at the top of the stroke, and for the rest pause there for a ten count. Calculate the mean relative "headspace" for each group, and compare. Let us know what you find. The difference will be more obvious with more work hardened brass.
Boyd
Completely agree
Help. I need more clues. The "OK" below doesn't mean I understand this point.
OK, makes sense. What I was suggesting was that a "better" lube would reduce friction. I take your point, I think, that my experiment only determines "less friction." It is too large a step to draw any conclusions about the formulary, as opposed to the amount.
Might try this. I'll have to change my current technique, which is to size a case, rotate it about 120 degrees, size again, rotate about 120 degrees and size once more.
* * *
This thread is turning interesting, as we are getting into stuff that shows it is more than the lube *brand.*
That's benchrest. Every time you (well, I) think something is completely figured out, somebody raises another point & it's time to think some more.
After all is said and done though, assuming the dies are good, I still believe two things:
1. Consistency is the most important factor in sizing.
2. Getting the lube off the case before firing is important. With lube, bolt thrust can vary. And when I shoot a set of cases that have a bit of lube on them, the fired cases always feel different.
I'm compulsive enough about this to patch out the chamber with alcohol before beginning a match -- right after running a patch light with Kroil down the barrel.
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2. Getting the lube off the case before firing is important. With lube, bolt thrust can vary. And when I shoot a set of cases that have a bit of lube on them, the fired cases always feel different.
Couldn't agree more, IMO this is HUGE......
-Leaving caselube on the brass causes the gun to react differently every shot, not good for accuracy.
-Leaving caselube on the cases causes the BRASS to react differently, not only killing accuracy but also ruining the consistency of the brass.
-Leaving caselube on the brass results in you leaving caselube in the chamber.... round-after-round-after-round. The resultant buildup causes the gun to react differently over time, NOT good for accuracy nor for consistency of brass.
But then I also think putting caselube on your brass for fireforming is retarted (sic)
so whadda' I know? I'm just a silly backyard experimenter.
al
Boyd Allen
Active member
Charles,
If the die setup achieves the desired shoulder bump with the die making contact (with case being sized in place) with the shell holder, variations caused by different amount of press frame flex or ram linkage compression will be minimized. If they all touch then all the cases go into the die the same distance, and the only other source of bump variation would be differences in work hardening/springback, and this can be largely eliminated by annealing.
Boyd
If the die setup achieves the desired shoulder bump with the die making contact (with case being sized in place) with the shell holder, variations caused by different amount of press frame flex or ram linkage compression will be minimized. If they all touch then all the cases go into the die the same distance, and the only other source of bump variation would be differences in work hardening/springback, and this can be largely eliminated by annealing.
Boyd
S
steyrl
Guest
+1 for Hornady Unique.
R
relodr36
Guest
Washes off with hot water!!
I recently tried to resize some 308s w/ one shot as the lube.
Broke off one on the die. Switched to imperial and the pressure on the ram arm changed dramatically.. thought IO forgot to put the case in the shellholder.
With the one shot I couldnt push the arm down hard enough!! Send me a prepaid box for the oneshot and it is yours.
Broke off one on the die. Switched to imperial and the pressure on the ram arm changed dramatically.. thought IO forgot to put the case in the shellholder.
With the one shot I couldnt push the arm down hard enough!! Send me a prepaid box for the oneshot and it is yours.