Web bump

Mr. Smith, When you get the click at the top of opening the bolt. The area above the groove area is too large. If you have a minimum or below dimension width there, you have a problem unless you size it. That is what small base dies are made for. I suggested that he cut some off the base of a full length die and drill or bore the shoulder area of the die out slightly. This will allow you to resize the base. You can control the amount by moving your die up or down. Hall of Fame shooter, Charles Huckaba, showed me this several years ago. You don't have to do it every firing, just when you get the click.
A lot of people just adjust their full length die down further and it will reduce the web slightly, but will dangerously bump the shoulder back.
Butch
 
I have tried "small base dies" in an effort to eliminate that "click" ...but was never successful.
From what I have read, once you start getting the "click" , it's best to discard the brass ...as it has lost it's elasticity.
There are many viewpoints on this sizing of the base area (ala the "bolt click revisited" thread from a week ago...and many others from the past) and it's difficult to weed fact from opinion when one's limited experience leads you to a different conclusion.
Does anyone know how much resize in this area is possible? I would think it couldn't be much more than a few tenth's? Remember -there is quite a mass of un-annealed brass in the web.

Butch- How far above the extractor groove does this resizing occur?
I had previously thought that "small- base" dies were a misnomer...in that they couldn't re-size up to the groove.
 
Last edited:
I had a problem with this

last year. I had two rifles re-barreled with the same reamer that cut the first chambers but the second set of holes were smaller. I WAS able to shrink the butts of the cases with a small base die and have used the rifles all year. I had to get my full length die re-bushed to keep the cases sized properly. Also Lapua 308 or the new 6.5x47 cases are larger than Winchesters. The small base 308 die will shrink them at the base.

Yes, cutting off a die and drilling out the shoulder area will work. The taper of cases being the reason. Perhaps cheaper to cut the dies if one has the tools and ability. It also may be possible to thin out a shell holder to get the same result. It is not true that one has to throw the brass away. I am still using some I have been shooting for 6 years.

Some of the brass I re-sized had web failures after I re-sized them. I think I may have bumped the shoulders excessively thus allowing seperation.
 
After re-reading an article by Jim Carstensen on 6mmbr website, I stand corrected....as he claims optimum results are reached when the sizer reduces the base by 0.001"........and if you have a base dimension on the low side of spec (as I do with a .222 HV) your only option is to have a die MADE to do so.......and use it EVERY time.

BTW ....Mr. Carstensen claims that once the brass begins to click (at the top of the bolt lift) "it will be impossible to stop when using full power loads,.....this is because of the memory effect of the brass case."
Perhaps if one insists on re-using such brass, the key is to reduce loads in order to eliminate the bolt click.

Butch---I apologize for doubting your advice.
 
LHSmith said:
BTW ....Mr. Carstensen claims that once the brass begins to click (at the top of the bolt lift) "it will be impossible to stop when using full power loads,.....this is because of the memory effect of the brass case."
Click to expand...
So, as an experiment, suppose you took such a case, and instead of sizing it in a small base die, turned .001 off the outside? Would it still click? (If it is only the web. that wouldn't hurt. Wouldn't hurt even part way up the transition from web to wall, but at some point it would.)

I puzzle on this not so much as a solution for anything, but to try to understand more on the "memory" phenomena.
 
One would think this "memory" (which is synonymous with elasticity, I believe?) is a function of the hardness of the brass........and after reading many articles on case annealing lately...is it not correct that brass can only be hardened via work-hardening?...ala being fired repeatedly........................THEREFORE is the case loosing it's memory (I can relate to that) preventing it from "shrinking" away from the chamber walls?
Since annealing the head area is NOT an option, the cases are pretty much useless except for reduced charge loads........and they're no fun.
 
So....aside from stressing the extractor above the norm, and ripping chunks of brass off the case rim, and just plain aggravation.....is there any safety considerations when one insists on using cases that click ?
Do the locking lugs receive greater stress?
 
Dang - -

LHSmith said:
So....aside from stressing the extractor above the norm, and ripping chunks of brass off the case rim, and just plain aggravation.....is there any safety considerations when one insists on using cases that click ?
Do the locking lugs receive greater stress?
Click to expand...

If it's that tight, chuck it. Too bad you missed the good scrap metals market though :D
 
I realize that discarding the "sticky" brass is the best option....but situations arise to shooters that will cause them to try to get the max. number of firings on their brass..i.e.- hard to get cartridges, P.I.T.A. case forming of wildcats, neck turning chores, etc.
Just want to know if there are safety considerations in continuing their use.
 
OK all you small base guys who insist that you're resizing the casehead.

Please mic the CASEHEAD right above the extractor groove before and after and let me know how much you're resizing the head.

I simply can't believe it without more info. The "small base dies" ARE NOT designed to resize the casehead, just to give a little more sizing effect at the base.... the caseweb to casehead junction.

Now I've GOT some equipment to resize (swage) caseheads and we've had this discussion for 10-12yrs here on the forum regarding what lubes to use, size of press required, type of dies and tapers required........IMO the only way to resize caseheads is to use a hardened resizing collet system. PLEASE some of you measure this stuff before asserting that you're resizing the base of the case to eliminate the click.

You can't resize caseheads with normal lube or wax and normal sizing dies....... a die small enough at the base to actually resize the casehead will stick in the press, it will tear the rim right off the case when using die wax.


Some have solved their resize problems by using "small base" or some sort of smaller die but they've NOT "resized their caseheads!"....... They've only finally found a die which is smaller than their chamber.

Please tell me HOW if I'm wrong here....... tell me that your primer pockets tightened up, the brass casehead mic's smaller and most importantly describe for me what lube, finish and hardness you've used to accomplish this feat.


And BTW it's entirely possible (in fact I require it) to NEVER get a click. It ain't about "work hardening" and "fatigue", it's about fit between the chamber and the resize equipment. You CAN fire the same case 50 times and not anneal it nor nuttin'.........in fact the idea of annealing a casehead should NEVER BE CONSIDERED ON THIS FORUM!!! It's WRONG. There is NO SAFE WAY TO DO IT nor are there any safe loads for it, it's just WRONG!


This idea of resizing caseheads and the (bad) idea of casehead annealing is what prompted me to join this thread.

al


BTW, throw brass away if you want but you don't have to. With properly fitted equipment your brass will never get sticky. It will never click.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top