Wanting a lathe
- Thread starter themayor
- Start date
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
The South Bend Heavy 10 I use was built for the US Navy in 1944, It is still more rigid and suitable for barrel fitting than 98% of the stuff being sold now. For example it will take a heavier cut without chattering than most of this size class imports.
As to quality of imports, Japan builds better machine tools than were ever built in the US-unfortunately. Taiwan quality for machine tools is probably second and will, like the Japanese tools, cost more than ChiCom.
I don't know why anyone expects to pay the same price for a tool room lathe that they do for a riding mower at Home Depot are surprised when they actually get it home.
As to Japan making better machine tools than the U.S. I'd have to call BULL SH*T on that.
MOORE JIG BORES, MONARCH LATHES, PRATT WHITNEY, BROWN & SHARPE , AMERICAN, HENDAY, RIVETT, AXLESON, and to many more to name, Mills, Grinders, Lathes , ect, ect.
The MOORE JIG BORE was GUARANTEED for TEN years..greatest error in any inch ....30 Millionths, Greatest error in 18"... 90 Millionths.
Monarch's 10EE were GUARANTEED ..Spindle accuracy both Radial & Axial run out -.000030 .
Most of the big lathes made in the early 40's were run HARD 24/7 earlier in their life and are still around nearly ....70 years later.
Though it would be hard for me to prove I doubt very much if Japan will be able to say the same.
Hal
MOORE JIG BORES, MONARCH LATHES, PRATT WHITNEY, BROWN & SHARPE , AMERICAN, HENDAY, RIVETT, AXLESON, and to many more to name, Mills, Grinders, Lathes , ect, ect.
The MOORE JIG BORE was GUARANTEED for TEN years..greatest error in any inch ....30 Millionths, Greatest error in 18"... 90 Millionths.
Monarch's 10EE were GUARANTEED ..Spindle accuracy both Radial & Axial run out -.000030 .
Most of the big lathes made in the early 40's were run HARD 24/7 earlier in their life and are still around nearly ....70 years later.
Though it would be hard for me to prove I doubt very much if Japan will be able to say the same.
Hal
B
buckdnutter
Guest
I will get all the info Friday morning and post some pic of the lathe I have. It is at my dads shop and the only thing it was used for is a place to set a radio while we worked...jUST had to have it and I bet you we ain't used that thing 3 times since we had it....The old timer we got it from used to make and tinker with guns, I think the lathe is from back in the 30's maybe, don't quote me on that I will have all info Friday, and I have the original manual...It is belt driven...And it is one heavy piece of equipment....Bent the arm on our engine lift that we had to have, We use it to hang deer on when we run out of hanging room in the shop.......Toys, Toys, Toys......
Butch Lambert
Active member
Hal,
I'm big on used American in good shape, but how many of those are available new today? None of them. Do you know how long since a new 10EE has been built and sold? I am looking at buying 2 of them right now. They are used of course.
Butch
I'm big on used American in good shape, but how many of those are available new today? None of them. Do you know how long since a new 10EE has been built and sold? I am looking at buying 2 of them right now. They are used of course.
Butch
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Hal, I don't know anything about your background but most of the machine tool companies you mention, I have been in their factories. I have been in the homes of many of the CEO's.
The Moore Jig borer would not be a pimple on the butt of a CIP. All conventional jig borers position by standard rods. All their accuracy is Dependant on the accuracy of those standard rods.
Monarch EE's, I've bought several and had several rebuilt at Monarch/Sydney. I remember the last two I had rebuilt, cost was about $65,000 or so and a spindle bearing pac was about $18,000 or so.
Now then, just go to a Mazak plant and see what they have as a spindle bearing pac that cost $45,000 and operate at over 15,000PRM!! Yes, I know Terry Yamazaki too. (ya-MAZAK-i) He has a Ming Dynasty tea pot in his foyer that is insured for $2,000,000. I've seen it up close.
Monarch/Sydney, Monarch/Cortland, American Tool, Cincinnati-Gilbert, Cincinnati-Milacron, Cincinnati-Greeves, Van Norman, Kearney & Trecker (been to Ted Treckers house too), Giddings & Lewis, Mazak, Hitachi-Seiki, Pratt & Whitney, King, Bullard, DeVleig, Lodge & Shipley, Jones & Lamson, Gisholt, Edlund Drill, Grey Planer, ad nauseous. I Been there dude!!! Don't tell me Bull Sh*t when it comes to machine tools!!!
S
scott63
Guest
It's not as good as having a mentor show you the ropes, but smartflix.com has a lot of DVD's for rent that cover lathe useage....Scott
Butch : I haven't talked to Scott at Monarch for a year so but in 07 he had an order for 8 or 9 NEW 10EE' s. There is a RIVETT 1030 on the Seattle Craig list that looks nice.
Jerry I ask if you had a NEW South Bend so you could comment on the quality of the retagged machine. Before SB change hands they were selling the same lathe as GRIZZLY is selling now. The Grizzly gunsmithing lathe has upgraded the bearings.
I didn't ask if you had tea at the CEO's house, I ask if you thought a Japanese made machine, an "import" which you cuss because its not a South Bend, will have the longevity and maintain it accuracy of 70 years +-. Again what accuracy guarantee that comes with those machines, not the RED Line?
Hal
Jerry I ask if you had a NEW South Bend so you could comment on the quality of the retagged machine. Before SB change hands they were selling the same lathe as GRIZZLY is selling now. The Grizzly gunsmithing lathe has upgraded the bearings.
I didn't ask if you had tea at the CEO's house, I ask if you thought a Japanese made machine, an "import" which you cuss because its not a South Bend, will have the longevity and maintain it accuracy of 70 years +-. Again what accuracy guarantee that comes with those machines, not the RED Line?
Hal
Gene DeLoney
New member
When USA made lathes are the topic of conversation, I rarely see the Rockwell name mentioned.
I have owned an 11 x 36 variable speed for about 10 years now and absolutely love it. I believe it was made in 1965.
Any comments? Anyone else own one of these?
I have owned an 11 x 36 variable speed for about 10 years now and absolutely love it. I believe it was made in 1965.
Any comments? Anyone else own one of these?
B
blunt shooter
Guest
learn to turn
themayor, You say you have no experiance, but you must have , at something else at least. How hard or easy was it for you to learn other stuff?Can you learn from books? Are you fumble fingered? Have you got time and patience? Do you make or repair things? Answer yourself questions like these and you will know if you can handle it. Dont be scared off by apparent difficulty because if you have skills, the difficulty is only apparent.
Anything round, or square stuff that wants to be round or needs a round hole go's in my lathe. gaden sprinklers, Harley cam bushes, handles, tractor bits, car bits, gun bits. So many jobs once you get a lathe .
I reckon buy deceased estate, that way you get lots of tooling that would other wise cost shiploads. You may even get a mill slide, measuring gear,work light and such. DO IT! DO IT! and dont look back.
Good luck
themayor, You say you have no experiance, but you must have , at something else at least. How hard or easy was it for you to learn other stuff?Can you learn from books? Are you fumble fingered? Have you got time and patience? Do you make or repair things? Answer yourself questions like these and you will know if you can handle it. Dont be scared off by apparent difficulty because if you have skills, the difficulty is only apparent.
Anything round, or square stuff that wants to be round or needs a round hole go's in my lathe. gaden sprinklers, Harley cam bushes, handles, tractor bits, car bits, gun bits. So many jobs once you get a lathe .
I reckon buy deceased estate, that way you get lots of tooling that would other wise cost shiploads. You may even get a mill slide, measuring gear,work light and such. DO IT! DO IT! and dont look back.
Good luck
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
The South Bend G26T is not anywhere near the South Bend GS26LT even though the G26T is better than most of the ChiCom thin-box gear head lathes sold today.
Hal, while you didn't inquire about Terry Yamazaki's tea blend preferences you did explicitly question my assessment of Japanese machine tool quality. There is no comparison. Japanese machine tools are superior than any era of American or any other machine tool national sources, period, and this includes the Swiss and German tool builders!!
Hal, while you didn't inquire about Terry Yamazaki's tea blend preferences you did explicitly question my assessment of Japanese machine tool quality. There is no comparison. Japanese machine tools are superior than any era of American or any other machine tool national sources, period, and this includes the Swiss and German tool builders!!
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Butch, on buying Monarch EE's make sure the spindle drive has been updated within the last 20 or so years. The old EE's had a spindle drive that was controlled by vacuum tube circuitry which is impossible to get some of the parts and it is expensive to replace.
An interesting discussion on EE drives is at
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-98750.html
Butch Lambert
Active member
Jerry,
I'm well aware of the different 10ee drives. Both of these work fine and believe it or not has extra tubes. Parts aren't hard to find, just expensive at times. I have a friend that is a EE that has one and can do any repair on the electrics. My Uncle Bill has one also and is well versed in the electrics. These came from a research dept. of a well known university. They have been well cared for.
Butch
I'm well aware of the different 10ee drives. Both of these work fine and believe it or not has extra tubes. Parts aren't hard to find, just expensive at times. I have a friend that is a EE that has one and can do any repair on the electrics. My Uncle Bill has one also and is well versed in the electrics. These came from a research dept. of a well known university. They have been well cared for.
Butch
Butch Lambert
Active member
Hal,
It looks like to me that Monarch has sold 2 10ee since 2000. They are doing a good business selling refurbs at about $65,000 ea. I wouldn't mind a Rivett as they are very good machines and no electronics.
Butch
www.shadetreeea.com
It looks like to me that Monarch has sold 2 10ee since 2000. They are doing a good business selling refurbs at about $65,000 ea. I wouldn't mind a Rivett as they are very good machines and no electronics.
Butch
www.shadetreeea.com
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WillBird
Guest
One thing to think about when purchasing a lathe to do gun work, how readily will it do METRIC threads ??
The CZ actions that a lot of folks like have metric barrel threads.
Bill
The CZ actions that a lot of folks like have metric barrel threads.
Bill
Butch Lambert
Active member
Bill,
Tell me which ones readily do metric threads. Which ones will do it without leaving the leadscrew engaged?
Butch
Tell me which ones readily do metric threads. Which ones will do it without leaving the leadscrew engaged?
Butch
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WillBird
Guest
Butch, I have never run a metric thread...but I have studied it a bit, and MOST lathes have to leave the half nuts engaged due to the nature of the metric threading system. I really find that FASTER on lathes with half nuts anyway ...it lets me concentrate more on running the thread....I got onto it when truing the threads in rifle actions and I do a lot of short threads now by leaving half nuts in and reversing spindle. On a "toolroom" lathe you can flip a lever and reverse the leadscrew without losing your index.
In our English system the threads are always a factor of the TPI of the leadscrew....this is NOT true when running a metric thread.
One CAN run metric threads on a South bend heavy 10 if he/she rigs up the indirect gear train...but a different solution would be required for each thread...and it would be a PITA to rig it up and tear it down each time. A really GOOD American non metric thread lathe would make it worthwhile IMHO.
AGE is probably the key factor to a lathe being able to do metrics via the quickchange.
Bill
...it lets me concentrate more on running the thread....I got onto it when truing the threads in rifle actions and I do a lot of short threads now by leaving half nuts in and reversing spindle. On a "toolroom" lathe you can flip a lever and reverse the leadscrew without losing your index.In our English system the threads are always a factor of the TPI of the leadscrew....this is NOT true when running a metric thread.
One CAN run metric threads on a South bend heavy 10 if he/she rigs up the indirect gear train...but a different solution would be required for each thread...and it would be a PITA to rig it up and tear it down each time. A really GOOD American non metric thread lathe would make it worthwhile IMHO.
AGE is probably the key factor to a lathe being able to do metrics via the quickchange.
Bill
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Err, what makes you think this lathe is a South Bend? Looks to me like it is a very old (prior to WW II at least) Bradford made in Cincinnati Ohio, not a South Bend that would have been made in South Bend, Indiana.