Ultimate front spider.

Dave Tooley said:
Anything more than 4 screws will just eat up time dialing in the barrel. I use 1/2-20 set screws with brass inserts, flat. In a perfect world the screws would have feet that pivoted on a ball but that adds too much length to the screws. I've made several spiders out of backing plates for chucks but that leaves the screws exposed and sooner or later they will bite you. My fingers have sounded like a playing card in bicycle spokes. One time my arm was doing 1250 RPMs and I tore the sleeves out of a sweater and long sleeve shirt getting away from the damn thing. Just stupidity on my part. Make a full diameter spider where you can have the set screws at or below the surface of the OD. You may end up with two sets of screws, different lengths.
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I like how you think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDWz2Ffn2Po
 
zfastmalibu said:
I like how you think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDWz2Ffn2Po
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Dude's contention that the ring puts the barrel in a bind is whack. He made a nice spider, at first blush I'd trust it but it isn't any more stress-free than a ring in a 4-jaw.

Also, my problem with front spiders has ALWAYS been that they tighten up with the bolts randomly seated against the sides of their journals. In my mind they'll most often go with two one way and the opposing two the other way in the static condition, but the chance exists that they can walk to the other side under torsion......IMO they MUST do in most cases. Therefore I prefer the ring.
 
alinwa said:
Dude's contention that the ring puts the barrel in a bind is whack. He made a nice spider, at first blush I'd trust it but it isn't any more stress-free than a ring in a 4-jaw.

Also, my problem with front spiders has ALWAYS been that they tighten up with the bolts randomly seated against the sides of their journals. In my mind they'll most often go with two one way and the opposing two the other way in the static condition, but the chance exists that they can walk to the other side under torsion......IMO they MUST do in most cases. Therefore I prefer the ring.
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I can promise you its stress free, while the ring is not. Can you indicate your barrel in using a copper ring and then completely loosen the outboard spider without the barrel moving? Try it and let me know. With this chuck I use the outboard spider as a pusher. The barrel is indicated exactly how I want it before any of the outboard spider screws are tightened. They are just used to support the muzzle, not to hold or force it into position. The other benefit of eliminating the copper is there is nothing soft to compress. I dont see any movement during chambering, when I used the ring method I'd check and see .0002"-.0005" of movement at times during chambering and I would have to re indicate. If I didnt find shortcomings with the ring I never would have looked for something better.
 
zfastmalibu said:
I can promise you its stress free, while the ring is not. Can you indicate your barrel in using a copper ring and then completely loosen the outboard spider without the barrel moving? Try it and let me know. With this chuck I use the outboard spider as a pusher. The barrel is indicated exactly how I want it before any of the outboard spider screws are tightened. They are just used to support the muzzle, not to hold or force it into position. The other benefit of eliminating the copper is there is nothing soft to compress. I dont see any movement during chambering, when I used the ring method I'd check and see .0002"-.0005" of movement at times during chambering and I would have to re indicate. If I didnt find shortcomings with the ring I never would have looked for something better.
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Your "promise" doesn't exactly still my palpitating heart, sorry.....

Of course I've tried it, I don't speculate nor do I comment on things I haven't tested without saying "I speculate such and such."

You finding shortcomings with the ring is an indicator of your abilities, not an indictment on the system. If you're the guy in the video, you don't know how to use the ring.

I could explain to you how to test both methods against each other without any influence from the support or outboard spider at all but I feel it would be perceived as confrontational or argumentative, an attempt to "support" a method other than your spider. I have interest only in facts and reason, not arguments.

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you"
 
alinwa said:
Your "promise" doesn't exactly still my palpitating heart, sorry.....

Of course I've tried it, I don't speculate nor do I comment on things I haven't tested without saying "I speculate such and such."

You finding shortcomings with the ring is an indicator of your abilities, not an indictment on the system. If you're the guy in the video, you don't know how to use the ring.

I could explain to you how to test both methods against each other without any influence from the support or outboard spider at all but I feel it would be perceived as confrontational or argumentative, an attempt to "support" a method other than your spider. I have interest only in facts and reason, not arguments.

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you"
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Cool, no problem. I agree with you, in that I dont speculate either. I have tested the 4 jaw with copper ring, as well as a chuck with swiveling steel feet. So no speculation here. I know how they both perform. Have a good one.
 
Safety Issue

I have seen a lot pictures of front spiders and action truing fixtures that are all very well designed except for one feature, bolt heads. To me bolts sticking out of a rotating mass along with hands or long sleeve shirts don't mix. I would rather see the bolts replaced with socket headed set screws that are flush or below flush.
 
Gappmast said:
I have seen a lot pictures of front spiders and action truing fixtures that are all very well designed except for one feature, bolt heads. To me bolts sticking out of a rotating mass along with hands or long sleeve shirts don't mix. I would rather see the bolts replaced with socket headed set screws that are flush or below flush.
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The spider in the vid addresses this.....and it is truly a beautiful thing. I really want one :) In point of fact, I've got a series of plans drawn up with offset holes to address the problem I ref'd earlier and may just someday make one with a series of jackscrews, something suitable for truing tubular sections.

The offset holes would be set to the driving side so's they tighten up under load like a chinese finger ring....
 
Not much "Stick Out"

Danny1788 said:
I'm thinking about going to a 6jaw set tru like your setup, how do you like it compared to the first spider plate you made?
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I have seen a lot of criticism of various setups about stick out onhere in the past. This one surely minimizes it :).

Pete
 
Gappmast said:
I have seen a lot pictures of front spiders and action truing fixtures that are all very well designed except for one feature, bolt heads. To me bolts sticking out of a rotating mass along with hands or long sleeve shirts don't mix. I would rather see the bolts replaced with socket headed set screws that are flush or below flush.
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Mine is much like the one in the vid but I do have set screws that will stick out,
I put jam nuts on them that minimise the hazards but that isn't there purpose.

Operating a engine lathe for many years in job shops you learn to keep clear of the spinning hazards. Anyone running lathe should be aware of all the safety practises.
And when a job needs to be done some times you don't always have the best material for the fixtures so you become even more aware of the possible hazards.

And by the way I have used many four jaw,spiders/cathead ,set true chucks and I have got the best results out of my front spider/cathead then all of them. brass tipped screws, copper rings,bushings and others.
 
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Pete Wass said:
I have seen a lot of criticism of various setups about stick out onhere in the past. This one surely minimizes it :).

Pete
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Pete I'm just trying new stuff to better my technique, I like chambering through the head stock and I use a flush system. Ive had one barrel slip on me, the barrel didn't have very long shank and the jack screws of my spider where on the radius of the shank, That was a pain in the ass to say the least. But I really like the looks of this 6jaw set tru setup, looks to be about the same process but you never change the clamping force that is holding the barrel at all.
 
I use a 6 jaw with copper wire and have never had one slip. You do have to clamp on a straight section. If you can get a 6 jaw you will love it.
 
Danny1788 said:
Pete I'm just trying new stuff to better my technique, I like chambering through the head stock and I use a flush system. Ive had one barrel slip on me, the barrel didn't have very long shank and the jack screws of my spider where on the radius of the shank, That was a pain in the ass to say the least. But I really like the looks of this 6jaw set tru setup, looks to be about the same process but you never change the clamping force that is holding the barrel at all.
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20170128_071432.jpg

This is the system is was referring to early in this thread.
finaly got a pic to upload
I have held a barrel on the steepest angle of the
contoure and still held without slipping
Just nice and tight not cranked on
it works without stressing the barrel
and holds secure.
I used a three jaw scroll chuck to hold my front sider
that is just like the outboard.
 
20170129_204222.jpg
This is the temporary front one until I get a better one made.
That taper is the one I referred to i had moved barrel up about 1.5" on that tapper to thread and chamber it.
Stayed in .0002 where it started.
 
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