To the Members of the NBRSA Southeast Region

Hunter

Chasin' the Sunset
I've heard that "back in the day" there were 12 or 13 ranges in the SER that held matches (I assume registered, group matches), that there was a match every other weekend, and that one of the biggest challenges was assigning match dates to the ranges. Last year there were only three ranges in the SER that held a total of five registered group matches -- no such ranges/matches in AL, FL, MS, NC, SC, or TN.

Recently, I've heard from a fair number of shooters in the SER who are current or former members of the NBRSA -- 25% of them are FORMER members! (That percentage would probably be higher if the sample size was larger.)

What came first the decline in matches or the decline in members?

What are we going to do about it? Here's some of what I'm going to do:

1. Renew my offer from 13 months ago (see post # 4 at http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?96342-2017-NBRSA-Southeast-Region-Schedule&p=803836#post803836) -- so, here's the offer: I'll volunteer to help run any SER-registered shoot(s) this year that is/are not currently on the schedule and that is/are within 300 miles of Atlanta; I'll also try to recruit another person to help. All that's required of someone who wants to take my offer is that they contact me at least six weeks prior to the shoot(s).

2. Within the next several months, contact someone at a few of the ranges in the SER that are not currently holding group matches to inquire about what needs to be done to get them to hold such matches.

3. Within the next several weeks, inquire of the above-referenced former members of what it would take to get them to re-engage.

So, what are YOU going to do this year to "Make the SER Great Again"?
 
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If it's a registered match, I'll help too but I can't walk very far. I'm also almost certain that I can talk Hunter into traveling more than 300 miles....so that's two helpers.The decline in matches came first...it happened because of diminishing attendance. The diminishing attendance happened because of the expense. The expense was related to fuel costs. I remember whining about the $200 I spent attending matches.
 
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The biggest problem we have is lack of attendance. When I started shooting in 1996 a typical shoot would draw more than 40 shooters and it wasn't unusual for 60+ to show up. In the mid 2000's when oil prices spiked there was a rapid decline in attendance. In recent years 30 shooters and frequently less is typical.

20 years ago the region could schedule a match every two weeks and there were enough shooters around the region to guarantee good attendance at every match. At the present time NBRSA Southeast Region membership numbers approximately 160 shooters. Of those 160 only 64 actually attended Southeast Region shoots in 2017. Some of those only went to the Shamrock.

With so few active shooters it is very hard to schedule more shoots and convince more ranges to hold them. The months of May, August and September (or October) are almost impossible to schedule because in May we are competing with Hog Roast and Super Shoot, August we are competing with IBS Group Nationals and either September or October we are competing with NBRSA Group Nationals. All of those events will draw at least 30% of our active shooters (including me) making it very difficult for those shooters to also attend a regional match.

20 years ago there were enough active shooters that scheduling close to the big shoots wasn't really a problem. Today those shoots draw a huge percentage of our active shooters.

Adding ranges and shoots to the schedule will not solve this problem. The only solution is to attract more shooters to the sport, and (this is critical) actually get them to attend shoots beyond the one near their home base. I am open to suggestion on how to deal with this, but the only solution I know of is for active shooters to work hard to get new blood into the sport and then drag them to some matches.
 
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Steve, here in the Houston Texas area, we have a multitudes of Matches that are shot with Benchrest Rifles. The problem? Less than 10 percent are NBRSA Group Matches.

We have NBRSA VFS, 250 and 400 yard "Claybreaks", 600 yard "Claybreaks", "500 Meter Fly Shoots", and various Club Matches.

All of these various Disciplines require a Rifle that will shoot like a Benchrest Rifle. They are well attended. Shooters are spending big bucks on equipment and Rifles.

What they are not doing is shooting Group.

I have no answers.
 
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At the present time NBRSA Southeast Region membership numbers approximately 160 shooters. Of those 160 only 64 actually attended Southeast Region shoots in 2017. Some of those only went to the Shamrock.

...

Adding ranges and shoots to the schedule will not solve this problem. The only solution is to attract more shooters to the sport, and (this is critical) actually get them to attend shoots beyond the one near their home base. I am open to suggestion on how to deal with this, but the only solution I know of is for active shooters to work hard to get new blood into the sport and then drag them to some matches.

Steve, are you aware of whether anyone has touched base with any of those 100 or so members who didn't shoot to find out why and what can be done to get them to re-engage?

Regarding adding ranges and shoots, I think that's what will attract more participation. As implied in the second paragraph of post # 4 at http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?96342-2017-NBRSA-Southeast-Region-Schedule, a number of folks had rather shoot close to home than travel a long way just to shoot a registered match. Of the 25% referenced in post # 1 above, I know one of the main reason some of them are FORMER members is because of the lack of nearby shoots. We need more ranges and shoots (the closer the better). To paraphrase "Field of Dreams," if we have (nearby) shoots they will come. The more shoots we have the more likely it is that some will be "nearby."

I've "dragged" a couple of shooters to matches (one of whom bought all the necessary paraphernalia) -- neither of them are BR shooters today.
 
As far as compelling Ranges that are not having Matches to start having them, if they do not already have a functioning Moving Backer System, I doubt any would be willing to build or acquire one.

Perhaps Ranges would be willing to shoot a Discipline that does not require a Moving Backer. But then you would have those that are locked into the 6PPC shooting Group Matches, who do not wish to build an entire new setup to compete with, not showing up.

The answer to that might be to adopt the UBR Format, which is caliber neutral. But that would be another Sanctioning Entity, which dos not help the delima faced by the NBRSA pertaining to low attendance.

As I said before. No easy answers.
 
As far as compelling Ranges that are not having Matches to start having them, if they do not already have a functioning Moving Backer System, I doubt any would be willing to build or acquire one.

As noted at point 2 in post # 1 above, I'm going to try to find some ranges willing to hold registered group matches (BTW, is there anything that says such matches HAVE to be a two-day affair?) If such ranges are out there, surely, there are enough shooters willing to donate time to building a moving backer system so the club doesn't have to do anything other than provide the venue. Also, surely, there's enough construction- and engineering-related expertise on this forum and among the non-forum shooters to direct the volunteers in the how-to of building such a system.
 
"are you aware of whether anyone has touched base with any of those 100 or so members who didn't shoot to find out why and what can be done to get them to re-engage?"

No, but that is a good idea.

"if we have (nearby) shoots they will come. The more shoots we have the more likely it is that some will be "nearby."

Question for you...Riverbend has a very active club benchrest program. How many of those club match shooters compete in the registered shoots? I started a club match program at Brock's Gap in Birmingham which led to approximately 15 shooters actually buying benchrest rifles. When I held registered shoots at Brock's Gap only three of them would show up. The last shoot I held there I only had one volunteer to help run the match.

Go ahead and try to find some ranges. 10 years ago it cost me $2000 to get set up with target frames, moving backer system and all the other stuff needed to run a shoot. Not sure what it would cost today. The problem isn't really ranges...it's people to run the shoots. There are several ranges in SE Region that already have moving backer systems but they don't have anyone who is interested in running the shoots.

As to one day shoots...that's pretty much what club matches are for and very few of them are registered. Very few people will drive more than 100 miles to shoot 2 aggs...probably more like 50 miles.
 
Question for you...Riverbend has a very active club benchrest program. How many of those club match shooters compete in the registered shoots? I started a club match program at Brock's Gap in Birmingham which led to approximately 15 shooters actually buying benchrest rifles. When I held registered shoots at Brock's Gap only three of them would show up. The last shoot I held there I only had one volunteer to help run the match.

Go ahead and try to find some ranges. 10 years ago it cost me $2000 to get set up with target frames, moving backer system and all the other stuff needed to run a shoot. Not sure what it would cost today. The problem isn't really ranges...it's people to run the shoots. There are several ranges in SE Region that already have moving backer systems but they don't have anyone who is interested in running the shoots.

I'm saddened to hear of the poor turn-out at Brock's Gap, and congratulate you for holding matches there.

At least 10 of the regular and semi-regular shooters at the River Bend club matches shoot in some of the registered matches. Also, some of those same people volunteer to help run the registered matches.

I don't intend to spend a bunch of money; however, I don't mind trying to get people to volunteer to help put together a moving backer system, and run the shoots. As you probably know, sometimes, helping is more enjoyable than shooting -- particularly when the shooters say something like, "Thank you for giving of your time so we could shoot." :)

BTW, I've always been puzzled over the fact that folks will drive many hundreds of miles to shoot four aggs, but not drive far to shoot two aggs.
 
I think some folks drive excessive miles to shoot a registered match but wouldn't give a second thought to a non-registered match regardless of where it is. Actually, that's a bit more than what I think as it's been proven over and over, match after match. The reason that club matches are doing "somewhat" well at the moment relates to the cost of travel...and equipment as that stuff is rather expensive these days. It swings both ways but both are not equal to what it once was for registered group matches. I attended a UBR match and liked it pretty good...but I didn't return for reasons unknown to me. Furthermore, it appears that I'm the only one that cares what I do. :)
 
Ranges in the Southeast region that may already have backer systems:

Charlotte Rifle and Pistol Club, Charlotte, NC
Fayette Sportsman's Club (maybe), Fayette, AL
Lakeland Rifle and Pistol Club, Lakeland, FL
Manatee Gun and Archery Sports Club, Manatee, FL
Rockingham Co. Gun Club, Reidsville, NC
Unaka Rod and Gun Club, Johnson City, TN

If you contact any of these clubs, you're likely to get a ho-hum response. Just don't let it end there...go in person if necessary and make promises you can't possibly keep....just be sure to smile when you say it.
 
Regarding point # 3 in post # 1 above, I contacted all of those former member and asked, “[W]hat can be done to get you to renew your membership AND shoot in the NBRSA registered matches again?” The response was dismal; only about 15% of those former members responded, and, according to them, there is nothing that can be done at this time to get them to re-join. (Based on those responses and having talked with another member who contacted folks in the past, I suspect the chances of getting many former members to re-join are slim. Regrettably, I also suspect not much is being done to retain members before they become former members.)
 
Great news!

I just spoke with someone associated with the Kettlefoot range in Bristol and it sounds as though that range has the facilities (maybe minus a moving backer system) to accommodate CF BR matches, and would be willing to make the range available. It also sounds like all that's needed is someone to step up and organize the effort (which may include arranging for a MBS). Any takers? BTW, see point 1 in post # 1 above, and see post # 2 above.
 
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I just spoke with someone associated with the Kettlefoot range in Bristol and it sounds as though that range has the facilities (maybe minus a moving backer system) to accommodate CF BR matches, and would be willing to make the range available. It also sounds like all that's needed is someone to step up and organize the effort (which may include arranging for a MBS). Any takers? BTW, see point 1 in post # 1 above, and see post # 2 above.

Kettlefoot is very interested in getting back into centerfire bench. Centerfire was shot there for about 20 years. Just a few years ago we spent $85,000 to upgrade that range and bring it up to 30benches. Unfortunately the person who ran the matches in earlier times and was going to run the new range passed a away.

When the Johnson City club closed its doors to Benchrest I took the guys who had run the JC matches to Kettlefoot to try to interest them in running matches there. Unfortunately, one took up preaching and one had just opened anew business. Failure.

We have an excellent facility at Kettlefoot except for a parking area large enough for motor homes and large camping trailers many shooter use today. Kettlefoot opened 11 bays to IDPA and IPS and that group built a large shed where we used to park campers.

I wonder today if we have enough shooters to even hold shoots there. When I started we had 64 shooters in that area. The last JC shoot we had 13.

There was a time centerfire/group was affordable. The Super Shoot had 400+. Last year there were less than 300.

.so??

.
 
There was less than 200 last year Jerry. When the SS is gone in a couple years, the outlook for this sport is looking very dismal.
Joe Hynes
 
Bill
When you get a firm commitment by their board put me down for a helper in one way or another I'm sure I can contribute.

USMCDOC had posted a full UBR schedule for Kettlefoot on another forum in Dec. then last week posted all of those marches had been canceled

I don't think you will have any trouble finding helpers. The trouble maybe getting to the endzone with their board
 
Kettlefoot is very interested in getting back into centerfire bench....Just a few years ago we spent $85,000 to upgrade that range and bring it up to 30benches. ...

When the Johnson City club closed its doors to Benchrest I took the guys who had run the JC matches to Kettlefoot to try to interest them in running matches there....Failure.

We have an excellent facility at Kettlefoot....

I wonder today if we have enough shooters to even hold shoots there....
....

.so??

Jerry, it sounds like you're a member at Kettlefoot; thus, you may have an inside track to helping get matches there again. But even if you're not a member you may still have an inside track since you live close by. Query: Are you willing to undertake the role of organizing a shoot (which might include overseeing the construction of a MBS). As noted in the posts above, there are at least three folks who are willing to help, and there are probably others who live nearby who would be willing to help.

I think the best way to get more shooters is to have more ranges spread around the region, and that might take some shooters being willing to volunteer their time to help with the shoots (maybe even to the point of having to forego shooting the match with which they're helping). Maybe if guys in one state helped put on shoots for the enjoyment of guys in other states, then guys in those other states might want to reciprocate, and on-and-on.

So, what do you think? I think if we're all willing to help, we can "Make the SER Great Again."
 
First thing is...look at why the ranges quit hosting Benchrest matches in the first place. It wasn't like the ranges just quit, but rather they had a reason to quit. I'm pretty sure that reason was attendance and having more matches is not likely to increase attendance.

I'll mention this again as it has a significant bearing on the subject. There was a time in the Southeast region when the only argument was whether or not the attendance would be limited to the range capabilities. The price of gasoline soared and killed that argument in one weekend. I pinched pennies and bought chambered barrels for $200 and powder, bullets, primers, etc...were somewhat affordable as well. This is not the case today. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the problem is not related to anything but money and I can't fix that. Sure, there's enough people with enough money to take a stab at it but you've got to know that it's been tried and tried to no avail.

How do you explain to a range that the attendance will get better if they just keep doing it? You can do like I did and lie until they agree to host a match....:) The better way of thinking about this is to have a Benchrest match for the sake of having a Benchrest match but that's a difficult sell these days.

Yes, Kettlefoot would be a great place to start! Schedule yourself a little time at their next board meeting and make it happen....
 
Jerry, it sounds like you're a member at Kettlefoot; thus, you may have an inside track to helping get matches there again. But even if you're not a member you may still have an inside track since you live close by. Query: Are you willing to undertake the role of organizing a shoot (which might include overseeing the construction of a MBS). As noted in the posts above, there are at least three folks who are willing to help, and there are probably others who live nearby who would be willing to help.


So, what do you think? I think if we're all willing to help, we can "Make the SER Great Again."

“Taking the role of organizing a shoot” would take much more time and effort than I have right now. I have a very serious illness in my family. My Benchrest shooting will at least be paused for awhile.

Yes, I am a member ofKettlefoot and a stockholder in the corporation that ownes the facility. I also own land that borders the club property. That being so I am very interested in what happens there. But I am also coming up on 80,not a good age to be a match director.

.
 
First thing is...look at why the ranges quit hosting Benchrest matches in the first place. It wasn't like the ranges just quit, but rather they had a reason to quit. I'm pretty sure that reason was attendance and having more matches is not likely to increase attendance.

I'll mention this again as it has a significant bearing on the subject. There was a time in the Southeast region when the only argument was whether or not the attendance would be limited to the range capabilities. The price of gasoline soared and killed that argument in one weekend. I pinched pennies and bought chambered barrels for $200 and powder, bullets, primers, etc...were somewhat affordable as well. This is not the case today. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the problem is not related to anything but money and I can't fix that. Sure, there's enough people with enough money to take a stab at it but you've got to know that it's been tried and tried to no avail.

How do you explain to a range that the attendance will get better if they just keep doing it? You can do like I did and lie until they agree to host a match....:) The better way of thinking about this is to have a Benchrest match for the sake of having a Benchrest match but that's a difficult sell these days.

Yes, Kettlefoot would be a great place to start! Schedule yourself a little time at their next board meeting and make it happen....
Wilbur
You've got an excellent point it's not like the matches we do have are overwhelmed with attendance
 
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