The World's Most accurate Rimfire Rifle!!!!

Hi Tony,

You're right, too many variables to determine the best rifle ever. With the difference in shooter ability, ammo, and conditions there is just no way.
Even the best shooters have good and bad days. I've beat Harry Deneen a handful of times, hell, I even beat Tony Harper a couple times. We just won't mention the 896 times they've beat me.

It should be acknowledged that there are some very good shooting Calfee rifles out there. When I inquired about a build around 2000 he didn't seem interested in working for a no name like myself. Back then 250's were rare, you could win with a 249 or even a 248. Shooters, rifles and ammo have all improved since then.

You must have missed out on shooting at Tuckertown barn. That was an experience, dirt. dust, drafts, and a homemade wood stove just behind the benches made for an interesting time.

Ken Henderson
 
TangoTwo said:
Hi Tony,

You're right, too many variables to determine the best rifle ever. With the difference in shooter ability, ammo, and conditions there is just no way.
Even the best shooters have good and bad days. I've beat Harry Deneen a handful of times, hell, I even beat Tony Harper a couple times. We just won't mention the 896 times they've beat me.

It should be acknowledged that there are some very good shooting Calfee rifles out there. When I inquired about a build around 2000 he didn't seem interested in working for a no name like myself. Back then 250's were rare, you could win with a 249 or even a 248. Shooters, rifles and ammo have all improved since then.

You must have missed out on shooting at Tuckertown barn. That was an experience, dirt. dust, drafts, and a homemade wood stove just behind the benches made for an interesting time.

Ken Henderson
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Ken,

I never got to the Tuckertown barn but I'm sure it was a far cry from the purpose-built facilities we have available today.

I'm also sure the fun was just the same.

Good hearing from you.

TKH (4628)
 
tuckertown, circa 2008
this was THE indoor spot prior to rocky river coming into existence.
rocky river is roughly 30 minutes south

tuckertown.jpg
 
stiller said:
Yea, no where else does either. Over on our side of the world it is much more like the top pic, maybe a little more rustic yet.
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Wow! What happened to Chicken foot? I haven't been there in a while, but it was pretty nice last time I was there. Perhaps you are speaking of the ranges a little further west?

You probably remember the plastic sheeting on the top windows at the barn in NC. When the wind blew the plastic would either blow out or suck in.

You had to decide which condition you wanted to shoot. But I still remember having a great time shooting there.

TKH (4628)
 
Phil Dorman is a darn good guy!! A Cop in the myrtle Beach area (probably retired by now), he is as honest as the DAY IS LONG. He is a journey man shooter, who enjoys the shooting & being around other shooters. I expect he hit on a lot of ammo his rifle loved, & knew what to do with his good luck!! He is one of the guys I miss, since I've drifted away from competition. I think he was shooting a pretty old rifle. NOT A CALFEE
 
glynn angle said:
Phil Dorman is a darn good guy!! A Cop in the myrtle Beach area (probably retired by now), he is as honest as the DAY IS LONG. He is a journey man shooter, who enjoys the shooting & being around other shooters. I expect he hit on a lot of ammo his rifle loved, & knew what to do with his good luck!! He is one of the guys I miss, since I've drifted away from competition. I think he was shooting a pretty old rifle. NOT A CALFEE
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Glynn,

I heard Phil was shooting a Time Precision rifle with the original Shilen barrel that came on the rifle.

Can you confirm that?

If that is true, it is another one of those things that could only happen in RFBR.

TKH (4628)
 
Tony, I heard the same thing. I don't think he is the type of guy to chase the LATEST & GREATEST. All the best to you. I hope you are well, or better. Glynn
 
A few pics of the range out behind Phil Dorman's house in Green Sea, SC
One of my most favorite places to shoot anywhere.
Some may recognize a couple of the fellas in the first pic.
DSC_0048.JPGDSC_0051.JPG
 
Rimfire "Leg" match for the ultimate accurate rifle

What would be an interesting match to really determine most accurate rifle/shooter would be to run like a service rifle EIC "Leg" match. Issue the same lot of ammo to all the shooters at the match, and see how they do. Maybe shoot multiple matches at the same or different locations with all shooters being supplied the ammo by the match director. Having to shoot different brands and lots of ammo would show the true capabilities of the rifle/shooter combination.
 
MilGunsmith said:
What would be an interesting match to really determine most accurate rifle/shooter would be to run like a service rifle EIC "Leg" match. Issue the same lot of ammo to all the shooters at the match, and see how they do. Maybe shoot multiple matches at the same or different locations with all shooters being supplied the ammo by the match director. Having to shoot different brands and lots of ammo would show the true capabilities of the rifle/shooter combination.
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You have lots to learn friend, plenty of Big, regional, national matches, without the pretend” this is what I’d do” matches.
Absolutely, zero in the rimfire world, BR, ISSF, prone, here or internationally, involves any version of “ you shoot what we give you” ammo,
 
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tim said:
You have lots to learn friend, plenty of Big, regional, national matches, without the pretend” this is what I’d do” matches.
Absolutely, zero in the rimfire world, BR, ISSF, prone, here or internationally, involves any version of “ you shoot what we give you” ammo,
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My point is that any one rifle can be the most accurate with the one lot and type of ammo that it is built for. The title of "Most accurate rifle", should be for the one that shoots the best with many different types and lots of ammo.
 
MilGunsmith said:
My point is that any one rifle can be the most accurate with the one lot and type of ammo that it is built for. The title of "Most accurate rifle", should be for the one that shoots the best with many different types and lots of ammo.
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MilGunsmith,

I see your point, but what you are describing is the best "general purpose all around" rifle.

RFBR, 3P, and Prone events are very specialized. None of the equipment is suitable for any other purpose.

RFBR aim is to shoot as accurately as possible at sanctioned target (s) using the equipment allowed within the rules. As is 3P and Prone.

None of this equipment is for general purpose use.

Any sporting rifle that shoots reasonably accurate would be far better at putting dinner on the table or be a better combat weapon.

I don't think you will ever see a liquor store robbed with a RFBR, 3P, or Prone gun.

TKH (4628)
 
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MilGunsmith said:
My point is that any one rifle can be the most accurate with the one lot and type of ammo that it is built for. The title of "Most accurate rifle", should be for the one that shoots the best with many different types and lots of ammo.
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That’s where the “you got lots of learning” part comes in.
You ever shoot a CFBR match, for instance, you know the ones where every single rifle shoots custom loaded ammo to perform at optimum.
These are, as friend Harper noted, custom built guns, built to perform as a major part of a complete system……repeat, as a system, always….zero exceptions anywhere.
Your premise is flat wrong. Best rifle on the planet fed sub par ammo, performs sub par, which is why it is never done anywhere it counts…ever, except in your mind.
 
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Bench rest is different from other types of shooting, but the claim was for the "Worlds most accurate rifle". This would say that this rifle can shoot to its best with any good shooter or good ammo. A true test for the claim.
 
MilGunsmith said:
Bench rest is different from other types of shooting, but the claim was for the "Worlds most accurate rifle". This would say that this rifle can shoot to its best with any good shooter or good ammo. A true test for the claim.
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MilGunsmith,

I'll try this one more time. I really want you understand what RFBR forums are about and more pacifically the discussion between which is most accurate. RFBR rifles vs 3P or Prone rifles.

Let us look at Mr. Calfee's claim. He claimed Black Death was the World's most accurate rimfire rifle. He said nothing about the shooter.

Shooters come in all abilities and from day to day who is best changes.

Rifles are machines or contraptions, and they pretty much perform the same from day to day until they become worn out.

But as Tim said if you put subpar ammo in them, they can't perform to their potential.

Bill's original claim was based on his testing of the rifle just after he built it. His current claim is based on the big wins and scores shooters have achieved over a very long period of time with Black Death.

To my knowledge that record is unequalled. His claim cannot be proven, nor can it be denied.

But since Black Death is still in active competition anyone can enter a match where Mike is shooting and try their luck against it.

Now which is more accurate: 3P/Prone rifles or RFBR rifles. I'm not sure anyone can prove that one either.

No one with a hope to win would bring a 3p/prone rifle to a RFBR match, nor would anyone bring a RFBR rifle to a 3P/prone match.

While it is true one can be adapted to the other, it is important that those changes be made to have any hope of winning.

TKH (4628)
 
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