The Un-Calfee Rifle

[Don Stith]

Pete
You missed the whole point. You said a Myers was an improved Swindleherst. It is not based on a Swindleherst. It is based on a 40X. If you want to call it an improved 40X, I might agree with you.
Personally, I wish someone would have marketed the design Billy had intended to produce himself. It was going to have selectable firing pin orientation and could use a Remington or Anschutz trigger. Other than the prototype, the closest I have seen was what he called a 250 Suhl. Don't think there are many of those around either. He made the action body and used a Suhl bolt and Anschutz trigger. He made a separate bolt and feed ramp to get the 6 o'clock option on that one.
see you resurected the Chet Amick thread too. Two great 22 mechanics . I was fortunate to know both well and have rifles built by them. Now if I could just shoot up to their standards

 

[Pete Wass]

Pete
You missed the whole point. You said a Myers was an improved Swindleherst. It is not based on a Swindleherst. It is based on a 40X. If you want to call it an improved 40X, I might agree with you.
Personally, I wish someone would have marketed the design Billy had intended to produce himself. It was going to have selectable firing pin orientation and could use a Remington or Anschutz trigger. Other than the prototype, the closest I have seen was what he called a 250 Suhl. Don't think there are many of those around either. He made the action body and used a Suhl bolt and Anschutz trigger. He made a separate bolt and feed ramp to get the 6 o'clock option on that one.
see you resurected the Chet Amick thread too. Two great 22 mechanics . I was fortunate to know both well and have rifles built by them. Now if I could just shoot up to their standards

It was my feeling that the top port made it more like a Swindlehearst. I realize the bolt locks up different. Also the firing pin of the Myers can be either 12 or 6. I would consider that an improvement. I don't place a lot of value to actions. I think, like an old gunsmith once said to me, once the gate is closed, the gate is closed. It's what's out front of the bolt face that matters most. The things I like most about the Myers is being able to drop a round in and close the bolt followed second by it ejecting right and forward. There hasn't been a lot of emphasis placed on ease of shooting with some of the customs, in my opinion. Jerry Stiller seems to have thought about it some.

Pete

 

[Don Stith]

If you have enough guns, you don't have to test ammo before purchase. You just buy a case and check to see which rifle likes it. Eventually I'll find one that will shoot anything and automatically compensate for my errors.

 

[MIKECAMERON]

I think, like an old gunsmith once said to me, once the gate is closed, the gate is closed. It's what's out front of the bolt face that matters most.

Pete

That may be with centerfire Pete but it couldn't be any more wrong when applied to rimfire, ignition and bolt lockup are critical in making rimfire accuracy.
MC

 

[Pete Wass]

That may be with centerfire Pete but it couldn't be any more wrong when applied to rimfire, ignition and bolt lockup are critical in making rimfire accuracy.
MC

I have seen some pretty junky rifles with pretty junky actions shoot pretty darn well. I know they are rare but really, most of the arguments are about quite minor things in reality. Picking up the crumbs is pretty much what the arguments are all about. I have three custom rimfire rifles, all three with different actions. All of them shoot pretty well, in spite of some of the perceived faults of their actions.

I have owned a few GREAT barrels over the years. It is easy to tell one when one has it. While the barrels on the rifles I have are what I would call good, they are not GREAT. I intend to replace them, as my income allows. I believe the theory that barrels are cheaper than ammo so, we'll see.

Pete

 

[Frank Green]

I've got one that will be tough to follow.....

1903 Springfield action (made around 1906), being rebuilt as a 1924 International Match Rifle. Barrel length is 28" finish (originals were 30"), gain twist rifling, c.m. barrel steel, BAR front sight base with a Lyman 17a on top, Lyman 48 rear, Timney trigger, 1922 bolt assy., Unertl blocks and a 20x Unertl on the barrel. Until I get a good stock for it for testing I took a Winchester Marksman that was cracked and somebody hacked on the wood to reshape it some why I don't know. Reinletted the stock and pillar bedded the '03 action into it. So far it's been shooting .495-.800's at a 114 yards. Best temp. for the weather has been no warmer than 22 degrees. Barrel doesn't even have 50 rounds thru it!

Also in the works a 52c with a new barrel. Rest of the gun will be stock except for a Kenyon trigger. The new barrel will be s.s. with gain twist rifling and thinking left hand twist with 8 grooves. Just like my Pope barreled 6 1/2 Rigby Ballard which by the way is a awesome shooter as well!

At least the first one goes against the grain!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Frank Green]

Here is a pic. of the Springfield.....



Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Frank Green]

And the Ballard......



Later, Frank

 

[Pete Wass]

I don't think there is much difference, technically Mike

That may be with centerfire Pete but it couldn't be any more wrong when applied to rimfire, ignition and bolt lockup are critical in making rimfire accuracy.
MC

The best centerfire rifles have all the same detail work done to them as rimfire rifles do. Everything is as critical as with rimfire rifles, be it firing pins, springs bolts chambers, stocks or barrels. Either kind of rifle works the same way. Rifles are , pretty much, about barrels, be they RF or CF. If one does not have the right ammo in a great barrel, they aren't likely to win much. Ergo the thinking that unless one has a great barrel, they are crippled. There is a compelling reason Cooper rifles shoot as well as hey do, be they CF or RF. They have Great Barrels. Their actions and triggers are nothing to write home about.

Pete

 

[tim]

The best centerfire rifles have all the same detail work done to them as rimfire rifles do. Everything is as critical as with rimfire rifles, be it firing pins, springs bolts chambers, stocks or barrels. Either kind of rifle works the same way. Rifles are , pretty much, about barrels, be they RF or CF. If one does not have the right ammo in a great barrel, they aren't likely to win much. Ergo the thinking that unless one has a great barrel, they are crippled. There is a compelling reason Cooper rifles shoot as well as hey do, be they CF or RF. They have Great Barrels. Their actions and triggers are nothing to write home about.

Pete

Really Pete? If so kindly tell the class why the absolute best CF smiths refuse to build 22's? Why is that Pete? The one day lapping tutorial, the old sage gunsmith proverbs, I have never in my life seen any single human post so much unfounded BS in my life.

 

[Pete Wass]

Really Pete? If so kindly tell the class why the absolute best CF smiths refuse to build 22's? Why is that Pete? The one day lapping tutorial, the old sage gunsmith proverbs, I have never in my life seen any single human post so much unfounded BS in my life.

How many Shooter of the Year titles have you won Tim?

 

[Pete Wass]

Really Pete? If so kindly tell the class why the absolute best CF smiths refuse to build 22's? Why is that Pete? The one day lapping tutorial, the old sage gunsmith proverbs, I have never in my life seen any single human post so much unfounded BS in my life.

I have no idea why they don't want to do them but I would guess they have plenty to do otherwise and don't want to buy more tools. Unlike you Tim, I am not a fan of anything nor do I grow to idolize folks. If you want to continue to believe in Black Magic, go ahead but I never could see the sense in being a Fan or idolizing folks.

 

[MIKECAMERON]

The best centerfire rifles have all the same detail work done to them as rimfire rifles do. Everything is as critical as with rimfire rifles, be it firing pins, springs bolts chambers, stocks or barrels. Either kind of rifle works the same way. Rifles are , pretty much, about barrels, be they RF or CF. If one does not have the right ammo in a great barrel, they aren't likely to win much. Ergo the thinking that unless one has a great barrel, they are crippled. There is a compelling reason Cooper rifles shoot as well as hey do, be they CF or RF. They have Great Barrels. Their actions and triggers are nothing to write home about.

Pete

Then you just proved your statement is totally wrong about the gate being closed, if they translate then you know ignition is critical and you know the bolt lockup is critical,you can have the best barrel in the world but if your ignition or bedding or bolt lockup is off then the rifle wont shoot, thanks for proving my point Pete.

MC

 

[tim]

I have no idea why they don't want to do them but I would guess they have plenty to do otherwise and don't want to buy more tools. Unlike you Tim, I am not a fan of anything nor do I grow to idolize folks. If you want to continue to believe in Black Magic, go ahead but I never could see the sense in being a Fan or idolizing folks.

You're right about one thing, no idea. Many, including myself, try and learn everything from everybody. You ask a lot of questions, have several well above your pay grade, offer solid info which you then usually refute and argue about, from the make believe ammo conspiracy to the lead in the barrel which doesn't appear anywhere other than your barrels......if so, because you simply don't know how to clean one.
My posts areless to argue with you, tantamount to talking to a wall, and more to warn the unsuspecting before they get misdirected.

 

[Pete Roberson]

6 o'clock

Bill
Bringing us back on track a little, I wouldn't worry about the 6 o'clock firing pin.
It along with the tuner idea that BC claims are his idea were stolen from the 1800's
as they were both used back then, so carry on with your un-calfed ideas because they wern't
his to start with!!
Pete Roberson

Glad that stock worked !!

 

[Bill B]

Bill
Bringing us back on track a little, I wouldn't worry about the 6 o'clock firing pin.
It along with the tuner idea that BC claims are his idea were stolen from the 1800's
as they were both used back then, so carry on with your un-calfed ideas because they wern't
his to start with!!
Pete Roberson

Glad that stock worked !!

Pete, was that grey marble Meredith originally yours? When I get back from SC in a couple weeks, I'm really looking forward to wringing this rifle out and see what it'll do. Maybe that first target was a fluke. If not, it'll be tough to figure out which rifle to use as my primary this season.

 

[tuna921]

If you were to set out to build an Un-Calfee rifle, what would it be? That is to say, a rifle built against Calfee's tenants of what it takes to build a winner. Well, I have my version. I posted here a couple weeks ago about testing Stillers 2500X at Gordon Eck's shop and how well it shot, slapped together with a barrel and stock that he had lying around. I put my dibbs in on the rifle and this week I got a call from Gordon asking me if I still wanted to buy it. He bedded the stock to the 2500X and I went to pick it up today. While chatting with Gordon and his brother Melvin over a glass of Stagg Jr. bourbon, it hit me that what Gordon created for me was an Un-Calfee rifle. It has the 2500X SAP ignition action (I have to admit it does have 6 ignition as I didn't think to have Gordon change it to 12 ignition - there's time for that), and it has a older Rock Creek 5R barrel with cut rifling (which he had lying around the shop that no one wanted). The stock is a Meredith, not a straight line stock. It has a std Harrell's tuner that has yet to be touched, just slapped on there. I put on my old Sightron 36X scope and went to sight it in during a heavy snow storm @ 11 degrees with the wind howling pretty good. After a couple adjustments, I shot an X, the next shot went in the same hole without any enlargement. It was just too nasty to shoot any more than that. So, we have our own little spearment. Can an Un-Calfee gun, such as this, smithed by a Yankee gunsmith, shoot in a basket? So far the indications are that it just might. Time will tell, but I am proud to be shooting this Un-Calfee and pride of ownership is a good thing. Oh, it is not stenciled with any name. If I believed in such a thing, I think "Up Yours" would be appropriate.

Who else out there is shooting an Un-Calfee? Man I'm hoping this will shoot in a basket. I love spearmentin'.

Well Gordon just got my stock and action in and is going to put a barrel on it this weekend. Bill, it will be a little more Un then yours........That case of brown water is ready for you ! Just think sausage and free car washes.......Now if we could only talk Pepper out of that 4 machine!

 

[tim]

I'm going to follow this very closely Tuna, action off to the stocker today, couple barrels in the works so I'm coming up right behind you. Will be real interested to see how yours shoots and your thoughts on the action once you've lived with it a bit.

 

[Bill B]

Well Gordon just got my stock and action in and is going to put a barrel on it this weekend. Bill, it will be a little more Un then yours........That case of brown water is ready for you ! Just think sausage and free car washes.......Now if we could only talk Pepper out of that 4 machine!

Jim, I went to the Italian Pork Store today and got the sausage; one hot, one sweet. This place also has the best fresh mozzarella and he makes his own balsamic vinegar reduction that he had us sample and it was "Wow!!!" I grabbed his card for you, he says he ships lots of stuff out. I'll be down in SC, in a very salty car, on Sat pm (too cold to wash up here). Mmmmm I like brown water. Will call you when I get there. Curious how your rifle will be more "Un" than mine. Mine has a cut-rifled barrel while yours will have that Lilja I assume. Gordon had me slug that sucker and it slugged beautifully. Maybe I'll be able to test it before it goes out. You and Tim are going to like these Stillers I think.

 

[Bill B]

Lmao if you can get down here its a block of ice .i live on the coast of nc not far from myrtle and it's bad down here. I could probably skate there faster than driving. Be careful anyone coming south.

I won't get to the Carolinas until Sat. and by then I hope it melts and all the wrecks are cleared. My brother-in-law moved down there a couple years ago. He was cracking up about how they were closing schools and going into panic mode over an expected inch of snow. I've good tires and lots of experience driving in snow - no problem. It's you southerners who don't know how to drive on it that I gotta look out for. Now ice is another thing, without sand or salt, ain't nobody goin' anywhere unless you have studded tires.