The Great Scoring Debate of 2010............

A

Al Nyhus

"It'll never work!"
If we accept the argument that a 6mm should be scored with a .30 cal reticle (to make things "fair")...we need to go to the logical next step:

The scoring reticle needs to be the dia. of the largest caliber permitted under the rules. :)

I sure wouldn't mind having my .30's scored with a .338 reticle. Or a .45. Or a .50. ;)

A quick perusal of the rulebook(s) regarding this might be a good idea for those debating the relative merits of "fairness".

Theme from 'Jeopardy' playing in the background...............;) :) :D
 
Al...I am NOT a fan of changing the VFS rules to accomodate any caliber to "make it fair"...I have seen enough crying about "dominant cartridge"...but back in the '80s' we shot Hunter Rifle with full 308s with 168grn bullets...and the guys that did not want to take the punishment from a 308 in a 10lb gun...started shooting a variety of 6mm wildcats...and did well with them...a group from Louisana used to beat us like rented mules with the 6HLS and other wildcats...and they NEVER whined about the caliber parity...it is just getting old listening to the whining...Oh by the way I think we need a rule to give parity to the 30 caliber versus the 6ppc in group matches...say reduce the 30 caliber group by .065"...:D

Eddie in Texas
 
Well now !!! When we shoot group, the groups are measured how?... Center to center, right. Like a few more on here...why not just score and measure everything from the center of the bullet. That favors no one...right?

:)
 
Al Nyhus said:
If we accept the argument that a 6mm should be scored with a .30 cal reticle (to make things "fair")...we need to go to the logical next step:

The scoring reticle needs to be the dia. of the largest caliber permitted under the rules. :)

A quick perusal of the rulebook(s) regarding this might be a good idea for those debating the relative merits of "fairness".
Click to expand...

Al,
The IBS rule book has no maximum bullet diameter for score. So the "largest caliber permitted" is infinity. Therefore, with such a reticle all identifiable bullet holes, regardless of size or location on the target, would score 10, X, and wipeout on every bull. Everyone would score 50-5X 5WO by getting at least one bullet on paper. For today's "everybody is a winner" culture, this is an excellent idea!:D:rolleyes:

Cheers,
Keith
 
mks said:
Al,
The IBS rule book has no maximum bullet diameter for score. So the "largest caliber permitted" is infinity. Therefore, with such a reticle all identifiable bullet holes, regardless of size or location on the target, would score 10, X, and wipeout on every bull. Everyone would score 50-5X 5WO by getting at least one bullet on paper. For today's "everybody is a winner" culture, this is an excellent idea!:D:rolleyes:

Cheers,Keith
Click to expand...

Bingo!!!!!

I knew it wouldn't take long for a savvy sort to arrive at this conclusion. :cool: :)

Sometimes, the best way to illustrate the absurd is with something even more absurd. :D;)

Good shootin'. :) -Al
 
awww. but the united states government has a limit on conventional center fire ...50 cal.,,,,,,,, black powder is different, and things larger than fifty require tax stamps/licences.........
so for our games fifty is the answer.......

mike in co
 
Create the VFSSMA ...

Why not just start another breakaway Association. Call it the VFSSMA! Varmint For Score Six Millimeter Association. For those who don't like the current rules. ;)
 
abintx said:
Why not just start another breakaway Association. Call it the VFSSMA! Varmint For Score Six Millimeter Association. For those who don't like the current rules. ;)
Click to expand...

So we can be even more divided and even smaller and more impotent. Now there is a REAL important suggestion!!!!
 
Funny thing, I am fairly new to this game, But I am building a 6ppc for score shooting as we speak. What better way to learn to read flags and conditions. Cant hurt can it? I like winning as much as the next guy, but I really want to learn this wind doping stuff. I am working on the nut behind the gun. Alot of 30's are winning, becuase alot of them are being used. Not to say anything else is bad or limited, just not the " IN " Thing right now.. Thats ok, Keeps the price of those 6mm bullets down and in stock. Fair is fair, What ever you caliber choice, hit the freakin dot, stop complaining and shot. If you have a hard time "Winning" shoot more and work on the nut behind the gun .. A bigger bullet wont always help. trust me, it wont .. : )
Andy B
 
mike in co said:
awww. but the united states government has a limit on conventional center fire ...50 cal.,,,,,,,, black powder is different, and things larger than fifty require tax stamps/licences.........
so for our games fifty is the answer.......

mike in co
Click to expand...

The IBS rules do not require a centerfire cartridge, so infinity it is!:D

Cheers,
Keith
 
From a barrel profile standpoint, probabably have a really hard time getting to 90 caliber, much less infinity caliber. <joking>

Seriously, there is no set of rules that is going to be fair to all cartridges/calibers, just a change in which has an advantage.
 
David Halblom said:
So we can be even more divided and even smaller and more impotent. Now there is a REAL important suggestion!!!!
Click to expand...

It's already happened, welcome the UBR. In the past why was there a need for both the NBRSA and the IBS ? Seems like one org should be able to administer the entire BR community, both group and score. Lack of imagination and unwillingness to try new things is what stifles the growth of an org and opens the door for new orgs.

The smart thing would be for the powers that be in the current orgs to recognize that there is a huge number of 22 and 6mm benchrest rifles out there and how can we get them to come to our score matches thereby increasing our membership and income ? You do it by giving them a real chance to win regularly. IMO this would be their own class with either a caliber limit or worst edge scoring.

I'm not saying this because I am a 6mm shooter, actually just the opposite. This year I have been shooting my 30BR in both group and score matches and my 6mm hasn't been shot in over a year. It's just that I see this issue as a POTENTIAL way to grow the sport. In the end it might not increase match attendance but I think the idea is good enough to give it an extended trial period of 3+ years.
 
Andy B said:
Funny thing, I am fairly new to this game, But I am building a 6ppc for score shooting as we speak. What better way to learn to read flags and conditions. Cant hurt can it? I like winning as much as the next guy, but I really want to learn this wind doping stuff. I am working on the nut behind the gun. Alot of 30's are winning, becuase alot of them are being used. Not to say anything else is bad or limited, just not the " IN " Thing right now.. Thats ok, Keeps the price of those 6mm bullets down and in stock. Fair is fair, What ever you caliber choice, hit the freakin dot, stop complaining and shot. If you have a hard time "Winning" shoot more and work on the nut behind the gun .. A bigger bullet wont always help. trust me, it wont .. : )
Andy B
Click to expand...

For a new guy, you have a VERY good insight so far! The key is to hit the point you are aiming at. And having beaten a bunch of 30's w/ a 6, and shooting a 30 and get beat by a 6, I can say you are on a track that need take a back seat to no one. The key is how well do you drive what you are shooting?

In reality, the 30's have created a whole class of lazy shooters. Yes, they shoot 250's.......w/ 15,16,17 x's and then fall apart at 200 yds, where the game is actually won.
 
SGJennings said:
From a barrel profile standpoint, probabably have a really hard time getting to 90 caliber, much less infinity caliber. <joking>
Click to expand...

Darn, forgot about that rule.:( With maximum HV taper and shortest length (18"), the largest muzzle diameter is 1.073", if I did the calculations correctly. So 90 is about the biggest bullet that fits. Hmm, but the size of muzzle devices is not limited. So you could, just thinking outside the box, use a long tuner that reinforced a paper thin muzzle for 1"+ bullets. We could use wipeouts of the 9 ring as a tie breaker at 100 yards.:eek: And we could be even lazier.:rolleyes:

Cheers,
Keith
 
When R.G. Robinett was one of the few to shoot his .30 BR in group matchs, as I remember he usually placed higher at 200 that 100 (correct me if I'm wrong, Randy). And with a .30 BR in group matches, I had the most success at 300, about even at 100 and 200.

What underlies the thinking that the PPC might be better at longer distances?
 
Charles E said:
What underlies the thinking that the PPC might be better at longer distances?
Click to expand...

A 0.29 BC 30 with 3000fps muzzle velocity drifts about .2" more at 200 yards in a 10 mph crosswind than a 0.27 BC 6mm going 3300 fps, so says the ballistics calculator. The little bullet more than makes up for its deficit in size at this wind speed.
 
Well, I've been shooting the 118-10s at 200 -- BC around ,350. What's that compute out to? Never paid that much attention to straight BC numbers, even in the 1K guns. Now, variance in BC is a whole other can of worms.
 
so just how good do you think your 90 cal blackpowder...non-cased round will shoot...lol not a chance.. and 5 shots in 7 min.....
 
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