Technical Series: Ammo

E

edgerat

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How do the manufacturers determine what goes in what box, how do lot numbers get assigned, what kind of sampling size is used when they put the velocity on the box, I believe Eley is the only company that puts velocity on the box right? Pie in the sky question, if you could have the perfect round, would it be an EPS bullet with Lapua lube or....?

Enquiring minds want to know!

Isaac
 
edgerat said:
I believe Eley is the only company that puts velocity on the box right?
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RWS have recently started to put the speed on the boxes, at least on R50.

It's in meters per second, so 331, 332m/s etc

Brian
 
There have been a number of threads across the forums on this subject.

Sample size for determination of speed and quality is relatively small when compared to the individual numbers in a batch. Investment and improvements to production consistency over the last 10-12 years has seen to that.

There was a video looking at the Eley production process doing the rounds a some time back. I can't recall where I first saw it. But an internet search might toss it into the light.
 
Here is how Eley does it.

Tenex, Match, and Team all comes off 6 different machines. Each box is labelled 1011-06031 then below that it will have the velocity. The 1011 is the product code and year stamp. 10 means it was loaded to be Tenex and the 11 means it was made in 2011. Match or Team will probably have the same 10** number to begin with because it was intended to be Tenex, but when testing was downgraded to Match or Team. The 06031 is the lot or batch number. In the U.S. we call it the lot, in England they call it a batch. 06 is the machine number and 031 is the lot. Most competitors would say "I am shooting lot 6031". A lot is produced as long as the machine is running. If the machine is shut down for any reason, then the next time it is restarted, a new lot number begins. Once the ammo is produced, it goes to the test range where it is shot indoors at 50M in 4 different factory Anschutz Rifles. 50 rounds is shot in each rifle for a total of 200 rounds. The group size and average velocity is calculated and if it meets the standard set for Tenex, then it goes in Tenex boxes. If it meets the standard for Match, then it goes into Match boxes. If it meets neither standard, then it goes into Team boxes. The best stuff is in Tenex boxes. Eley will not disclose what these standards are, but they assure me that they are periodically improving the standards. The Match of today would have been good enough for Tenex a few years ago. The velocity on the box is determined from the 200 rounds.

Hope this helps.
 
I was told by someone who may know that one can expect to have two flyers in each box of Match. Doesn't mean that one will but statistically, the computer told them that it might happen. The interesting thing is one can not be assured that all 10X will work in their rifle, even though it costs a lot more. I don't know about flyers but, apparently, one is paying not to experience any.
 
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Pete Wass said:
I was told by someone who may know that one can expect to have two flyers in each box of Match. Doesn't mean that one will but statistically, the computer told them that it might happen. The interesting thing is one can not be assured that all 10X will work in their rifle, even though it costs a lot more. I don't know about flyers but, apparently, one is paying not to experience any.
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I have'nt had a flyer in about 3 cases of match there Pete. Talk to someone different.
 
Given the size of the batches now being produced and relatively small sampling number selected for those batches. One can fall quite easily one side or other of the mean performance average.
Understanding that the likes of Eley base their minimum required GM.s on their lowest cost products makes looking hard at the budget ranges quite attractive.
 
I seem to have about two per card from the two lots I have Tim. I was looking through the stats and averages yesterday Tim and I noticed that you hadn't shot all 250's so far this year. Think that might have something to do with the "Match" you have?

Hey, Didn't I tell you not to answer my posts ? Pay attention!
 
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My definition of a flyer is a round that went someplace completely unexpected or unanticipated by the conditions. Pete, most misses are due to missing the condition, i.e. not holding off far enough, missing the mirage, thermals etc. Occaisionally (very rarely) I'll get a round that'll go somewhere completely unexpected or goes against the conditions I'm seeing with my flags. It's those "Now why did that go there" type of miss. Dennis Drake had one of those at the Worlds when he had a round from a lot of ammo, which he had alot of success with, go 4 points directly low. Now that was a flyer. Missing the 10 ring by a just a hair, in the same direction as the wind would be pushing it, would not be a flyer. That's a miss. If your misses are mostly vertical, but your horizontal is good, look to your tuner. (Which you already indicated, you think is not in tune.) Some of the best lots of Eley I've ever shot were/are Match lots.
 
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Pete Wass said:
I seem to have about two per card from the two lots I have Tim. I was looking through the stats and averages yesterday Tim and I noticed that you hadn't shot all 250's so far this year. Think that might have something to do with the "Match" you have?

Hey, Didn't I tell you not to answer my posts ? Pay attention!
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When I drop a shot it's generally because I made a mistake. With you it seems to be because you're cluless, there's a fundimental difference there Pete. I mean, lordy, every time you post something goofy, which is really a lot, somebody tries to get you back on the rails but no go. Hell, you don't want responses, don't make dumb posts on public forums.
 
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Boy it seems you have a stick up your butt with just about everybody.
You two don't seem to be too far apart geographically so why don't you just meet up some time and settle your differences....................... mano a mano?
 
Hambone said:
Boy it seems you have a stick up your butt with just about everybody.
You two don't seem to be too far apart geographically so why don't you just meet up some time and settle your differences....................... mano a mano?
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Pete- Hammy, Hammy- Pete, this is better than e-harmony.
 
tim said:
When I drop a shot it's generally because I made a mistake. With you it seems to be because you're cluless, there's a fundimental difference there Pete. I mean, lordy, every time you post something goofy, which is really a lot, somebody tries to get you back on the rails but no go. Hell, you don't want responses, don't make dumb posts on public forums.
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Friend Tim, Stop answering my posts!

Pete
 
Hambone said:
Boy it seems you have a stick up your butt with just about everybody.
You two don't seem to be too far apart geographically so why don't you just meet up some time and settle your differences....................... mano a mano?
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Friend Hambone,

I am an old and disabled Vet. I have no desire to be physical with anyone other than my Ms. Joannah. I'm sure I don't want to have to sue anyone and I'm sure nobody wants to sue me so quasi-verbal swats will have to surfice.

Friend Pete
 
And romance blumes. And Pete they're not posts, in an attempt to promote a bit of actual technical assistance some real useful first hand experience is often useful. You want no answer to your posts, try to avoid your usual hearsay, rumor,assumtions, etc. all of which seem counterproductive.
 
Pete, What is the nature of your disability( if not to personnel)
 
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