Stopping the muzzle, Calfee

Good for you, Lynn

Lynn said:
Well I took Bill Calfee's advise and tried to stop my muzzle today.I am shooting a 28 inch Lilja fluted light varmint taper in 6mm 3 grooves.As my tuner started life as A Stiller I left the aluminum body on the barrel and added weight incrementaly.I am using a 105 gr bullet seated to the full jam length and my powder charge had a 2 grain seperation.
At 100 yards I was getting around 3/8 inch point of impact difference between the 2 loads.I started adding weight at 4 ounces because that is the smallest weight I could machine and still keep the set screw.I added 1 ounce at a time after the original 4 ounces.
With that long and somewhat flimsy barrel it took right at 13 ounces to remove all of the vertical with the tuner at its midpoint.
If the weather co-operates I will shoot a match with it this Sunday 1-27-08 at 1000 yards which will be attended by Don "The Pumpkin" Nielsen who advertises on this website.
Lynn
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We will all be anxiously awaiting your report. PLease convey my best regards to 'Pumpkin.' :) :)

Gene Beggs
 
Lynn said:
Well I took Bill Calfee's advise and tried to stop my muzzle today.I am shooting a 28 inch Lilja fluted light varmint taper in 6mm 3 grooves.As my tuner started life as A Stiller I left the aluminum body on the barrel and added weight incrementaly.I am using a 105 gr bullet seated to the full jam length and my powder charge had a 2 grain seperation.
At 100 yards I was getting around 3/8 inch point of impact difference between the 2 loads.I started adding weight at 4 ounces because that is the smallest weight I could machine and still keep the set screw.I added 1 ounce at a time after the original 4 ounces.
With that long and somewhat flimsy barrel it took right at 13 ounces to remove all of the vertical with the tuner at its midpoint.
If the weather co-operates I will shoot a match with it this Sunday 1-27-08 at 1000 yards which will be attended by Don "The Pumpkin" Nielsen who advertises on this website.
Lynn
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Thirteen ounces, I'm not the least bit surprised, May take even more.
 
Lynn said:
Jerry That barrel blank was bought off of the 6mmbr website and I don't remember the exact taper but it is very thin for a 1000 yard lightgun.My other rifle with a Hart Max Heavy Varmint Taper or 1000 yard taper took 22 ounces today and it is 30 inches long.
If you guys are using 21.75 long barrels I would think them to be stiffer causing them to have a higher frequency and requiring less weight.Does that sound right or is it backwards?
Lynn
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Lynn, on my 600 yard LG for starting 2008 I am starting with a 30" blank Plama taper. This will give me more of a thin straight barrel than having to turn that sucker down. Calfee has shown us the thin barrel is more responsive to a muzzle mounted tuner.
 
Kathy said:
My centerfire friends:

When I run my range tests on the guns I build, .....

I shoot 5 shot groups and increase, or decrease, the tuner weight, until I get the two different velocities printing in the same group. I'm done. MY MUZZLE IS NOW STOPPED.

Your friend, Bill Calfee
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Bill, how many yards do you do this procedure at? That's the last piece of the puzzle for me. Thanks, Douglas, rimfire shooter.
 
Example please

Kathy:

"A tuner of the proper weight and position, for the physical size of the barrel, will completely stop the muzzle oscillations.....IT ABSOLUTELY WILL."

Sir, would you please provide an example of what is the correct length, diameter, position, and weight for this to actually happen. e.g. the muzzle to STOP using a .22 rimfire shooting Eley EPS in the 1070-1080 fps range as your example!

I realize it will be hard to give away that kind of information as it must have taken you an extreme amount of time and effort to learn, but it would certainly be a benefit to all of us that are trying to get to where you have already been.

One other question please! From a previous post. Does it take more weight or less weight to tune a long skinny barrel vs a shorter fat barrel.

Thank you, Sir!
 
Friend Keith23

Friend Keith23:

First, friend Donald: Thank you, I added the information to my original post.

Friend Keith23:

My test for determining the weight needed to stop the muzzle is a story I had intended to do for Precision Shooting Magazine.....they actually pay me to write those stories.....I know, I don't believe it myself sometimes as I ain't no writer.....

I have a decision to make now. Friend Doug, who posts on this forum, has set a web site up for me......http://billcalfee.org I have not decided yet, if I want to take advantage of his fine offer or not.......If I do decide to use the site, I will probably give a more detailed explaination of my "stopped muzzle" test there.......if I don't decide to take advantage of his offer, of the site, I will do an article for Precision Shooting about my proceedure...

I know you will understand....

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
kathy, stopping the muzzle.

My friends:

A muzzle attached barrel tuner of the "proper weight and placement" for the barrel being used, has the ability to completely "stop" the oscillations of the muzzle, not just slow them down.

The world of accuracy is changing......

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Kathy said:
My friends:

A muzzle attached barrel tuner of the "proper weight and placement" for the barrel being used, has the ability to completely "stop" the oscillations of the muzzle, not just slow them down.

The world of accuracy is changing......

Your friend, Bill Calfee
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Yessir Bill, it shore is! With guys like you and me jawin' back and forth, on all this stuff we are bound to make some tremendous progress in the next few years.

And BTW, you're always talking about how old you are; cut that out man, you ain't old! :mad:, 'ell, I'm older than you and I'm just gittin' my second wind. :D

Later,,

Gene Beggs
 
Kathy said:
I currently use two lots of Eley EPS ammunition, one has a velocity of 1035 FPS, the other has a velocity of 1075 FPS.
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I just have one question. If the muzzle is completely stopped then wouldn't the 1075 fps bullets strike the target higher than the 1035 fps bullets?
 
Lynn said:
Gene are you now agreeing Bill Calfee has it right on stopping the muzzle with a heavy tuner? Otherwise I don't understand your reply.
Lynn
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Lynn, as I have said before, Calfee and I are talking about two different things. If he says he can completely stop the muzzle with enough weight hanging out in front of the muzzle, I'm sure he can do it. I, on the other hand am talking about an adjustable, 3 oz., weight aft of the muzzle that varies the vibration frequency of the barrel enabling one to dial in the correct frequency. Again,, two different things entirely.

With the 10.5 lb rifles that I shoot, you cannot afford a weight penalty of thirteen ounces. It may very well be that in the heavy varmint category where the rifle can weigh as much as 13.5 lbs, one could do what Bill is saying. I and others have suggested that he build such a rifle and show us, but he concentrates on rimfires and has a huge backlog of orders. I'm sure he doesn't have time to fool with centerfire rifles.

I understand you have a thousand yard rifle with thirteen ounces beyond the muzzle that appears to have a stopped muzzle as Calfee suggests. Please keep us informed of your progress with that rifle.

Later,,

Gene Beggs
 
Varmint Al said:
I just have one question. If the muzzle is completely stopped then wouldn't the 1075 fps bullets strike the target higher than the 1035 fps bullets?
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Without getting into details there are some interesting facts on firearms. Remember firearms have different weights, balance points, firing methods (rests/hand held, etc), recoils, etc. For example, a hand held handgun will exhibit a higher POI with lower velocity ammunition than it will with higher velocity ammunition. Dynamics.

A Light Varmint centerfire benchrest rifle can, and many times does, have different physical reactive properties from another Light Varmint rifle shooting the exact same cartridge and load.

Another fact, a 16 ounce tuner can easily be installed on a 10.5# LV and make weight, if the barrel is properly contoured. Here, again, dynamics of the firearm.

I state this to encourage an open mind on tuners. It will be found, over time, now that several inquiring minds are working on this project, that tuners will have several uses.
 
Yes, guns with different loads will recoil differently, and different weight guns will move differently before the bullet leaves the barrel. However, Calfee says he stopped all muzzle motion so I assume he even stops recoil. After all Calfee is just a poor ol country boy god, he don't have to obey all those stinking natural laws the rest of us do!
 
pacecil said:
Yes, guns with different loads will recoil differently, and different weight guns will move differently before the bullet leaves the barrel. However, Calfee says he stopped all muzzle motion so I assume he even stops recoil. After all Calfee is just a poor ol country boy god, he don't have to obey all those stinking natural laws the rest of us do!
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Get real!!!
 
Wilbur said:
Did somebody answer Al's question?
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I'm don't have the data to calculate the results including air resistance. Considering that a faster bullet will lose a greater percentage of it's velocity, the difference shown below will close up somewhat.

Time of flight 1035 42 yards 0.1275 sec

Time of flight 1075 42 yards 0.1228 sec

Drop= 1/2AT^2 A=32fps^2

Drop (in inches)

1035 fps 3.123"

1075 fps 2.894

Difference in impact between the 2 rounds=0.228"

Air resistance will reduce that somewhat.
 
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Oh Great......

Now that both TomD and Varmint Al have presented some basic facts about guns and bullets, Lynn and Sharrett will have to prove both of them wrong. Wait a minute, maybe Calfee will come to the rescue with some of his super killer scientific stuff....never mind!
 
I think I see it now

The muzzle stops in the case of either velocity but at a different place such that the impact is the same - cool.
 
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