Stiff bolt closing

[Rflshootr]

P1000 action. Stiff bolt closing on an empty chamber. It clicks down off of the primary extraction surface, then stops at the sear pick up, then needs more pressure to close moving firing pin slightly rearward.. Any ideas what might be the cause? Jewell bench rest trigger, no safety, set approximately 8 ounces.

 

[rsmithsr]

no mounting screw interference on the bolt head ?
( i do not know the action, but a common issue)

P1000 action. Stiff bolt closing on an empty chamber. It clicks down off of the primary extraction surface, then stops at the sear pick up, then needs more pressure to close moving firing pin slightly rearward.. Any ideas what might be the cause? Jewell bench rest trigger, no safety, set approximately 8 ounces.

 

[Rflshootr]

No. Not even close to that point. It seem to be at the point where the sear/cocking piece hand off and lug lead ramps are on the down stroke of the bolt handle.

 

[Clemson]

If you remove the trigger, does the problem go away?

 

[Rflshootr]

I pulled the firing pin (same thing) and yep, the bolt is as floppy as any other action. No drag whatsoever.

 

[SGS]

P1000 action. Stiff bolt closing on an empty chamber. It clicks down off of the primary extraction surface, then stops at the sear pick up, then needs more pressure to close moving firing pin slightly rearward.. Any ideas what might be the cause? Jewell bench rest trigger, no safety, set approximately 8 ounces.

You describe a bit of "cock on close" where closing the bolt moves the firing pin rearward slightly. This is actually designed in to Remington actions and most similar pattern actions that do not have a trigger hanger. Many gunsmiths modify parts to reduce this for smoother bolt closing but it can be tricky and lead to other issues. The trick is to maintain enough firing pin travel for reliable ignition.

 

[Rflshootr]

OK. I'll bite.....how is this done? Is it a trigger modification or a cocking piece modification? Both?

 

[SGS]

OK. I'll bite.....how is this done? Is it a trigger modification or a cocking piece modification? Both?

The short answer is that material is removed from the cocking piece. Doing this reduces firing pin fall and can lead to poor ignition. You can measure the actual firing pin travel by measuring the difference in position of the back of the cocking piece when cocked and un-cocked. if you can remove a bit of material and retain about .230 of travel you will probably be OK. There are some guys that have this down to a science and can do more to increase firing pin strike with a neutral hand off. Alex Wheeler may be one, Chad Dixon, I'm sure there are others. Since I use Remington actions only for hunting rifles, I can live with the little extra effort on bolt closing. My BR guns are BATs and Kelbly and they have very slick bolt lift.

 

[Dans40X]

The short answer is that material is removed from the cocking piece. Doing this reduces firing pin fall and can lead to poor ignition. You can measure the actual firing pin travel by measuring the difference in position of the back of the cocking piece when cocked and un-cocked. if you can remove a bit of material and retain about .230 of travel you will probably be OK. There are some guys that have this down to a science and can do more to increase firing pin strike with a neutral hand off. Alex Wheeler may be one, Chad Dixon, I'm sure there are others. Since I use Remington actions only for hunting rifles, I can live with the little extra effort on bolt closing. My BR guns are BATs and Kelbly and they have very slick bolt lift.

A Remington pin fall is approximately 1/4" & is cock on open & cock on close....until it's corrected.

Drilling a 3/32" cross pin hole & parting off the aft end of said firing pin is elementary to increase pin fall if/when striker to sear hand off is accomplished.....correctly.

 

[Bob1949]

Sticky Bolt

The problem you describe is common on Remington type actions.
As the bolt is inserted into the action and the handle pressed down the firing pin engages the trigger sear,
with further downward motion of the bolt handle, it appears that the firing pin is extending out of the bolt.
This is a misconception. Once the pin and the trigger sear engage the pin can no longer move.
What you are seeing is the bolt lugs engaging and pushing the bolt forward.
With the pin held in place and the bolt moving forward compressing the pin spring approximately another 0.035” to 0.037” .
This is what is causing that last bit of closing pressure.
Not much can safely be done to remedy this problem.
When I feel my bolt getting a bit sticky I take it apart, clean it, oil it lightly and put it back together.

Bob

 

[SGS]

The problem you describe is common on Remington type actions.
As the bolt is inserted into the action and the handle pressed down the firing pin engages the trigger sear,
with further downward motion of the bolt handle, it appears that the firing pin is extending out of the bolt.
This is a misconception. Once the pin and the trigger sear engage the pin can no longer move.
What you are seeing is the bolt lugs engaging and pushing the bolt forward.
With the pin held in place and the bolt moving forward compressing the pin spring approximately another 0.035” to 0.037” .
This is what is causing that last bit of closing pressure.
Not much can safely be done to remedy this problem.
When I feel my bolt getting a bit sticky I take it apart, clean it, oil it lightly and put it back together.

Bob

That's a little better explanation than mine. It can be corrected for, just requires some expertise, Maybe I'll tackle one of mine and see if I can get it right,

 

[Dans40X]

The problem you describe is common on Remington type actions.
As the bolt is inserted into the action and the handle pressed down the firing pin engages the trigger sear,
with further downward motion of the bolt handle, it appears that the firing pin is extending out of the bolt.
This is a misconception. Once the pin and the trigger sear engage the pin can no longer move.
What you are seeing is the bolt lugs engaging and pushing the bolt forward.
With the pin held in place and the bolt moving forward compressing the pin spring approximately another 0.035” to 0.037” .
This is what is causing that last bit of closing pressure.
Not much can safely be done to remedy this problem.
When I feel my bolt getting a bit sticky I take it apart, clean it, oil it lightly and put it back together.

Bob

A dial indicator will eliminate all of ones misconceptions of striker to sear hand off.

 

[Bob1949]

Leave it like it is

Hi Scott, your right. There are three things that can be done.
You can shorten the pin engagement
or you can take some metal off the trigger
or take a little off both.
But whatever you do will require removing at least 0.035” .
I wouldn't try it without a good grinding machine, one with handles.

Bob

 

[Rflshootr]

So from what I measure, I'm getting .270/.271 of firing pin fall. Does that sound a bit excessive?

 

[Bob1949]

Pin Drop

So from what I measure, I'm getting .270/.271 of firing pin fall. Does that sound a bit excessive?

Your pin drop does seem a little large.
Take the bolt out of the action, drop the pin and measure the distance the pin extends from the back of the bolt #A.
Now insert the bolt into the action and push the handle down to lock.
Now measure the pin distance again #B.
Subtract #A from #B and that’s your pin drop.
My Remington 40-X measures 0.220”.

Bob

 

[Pete Wass]

I spent a few hours

correcting a huge " cocking on closing " issue with a 700 Rem action I have. what I did was file the cocking piece until the bolt closed without much pressure. The bolt worked great but the rifle would not fire. Pondered the situation for a day and then went looking for the reason. The fireing pin still had plenty of fall I thought so I measured the firing pin protrusion, .050". That seemed light to me so I faced .005" off the face of the place that contacts the inside of the bolt and the rifle fires perfectly. As I was filing the cocking piece I kept comparing the bolt throw and feel to a custom clone I have until I got it to approximately the same as the custom. Works great. I've won two matches with the rifle since. I bought one of those Jewel triggers that has the built in bolt release and is that dern thing slick or what?!!

Pete

 

[Dans40X]

Your pin drop does seem a little large.
Take the bolt out of the action, drop the pin and measure the distance the pin extends from the back of the bolt #A. (-.215")
Now insert the bolt into the action and push the handle down to lock. (battery)
Now measure the pin distance again #B. (+.045")
Subtract #A from #B and that’s your pin drop. (????)
My Remington 40-X measures 0.220”.

Bob

sample measurements in bold type from unmolested Rem 700.

Increasing travel by cock on close/striker to sear hand off is subtracted?

 

[Bob1949]

If your 40-X looks like this one
Take measurement #A
Put the bolt back into the gun and into battery.
Take measurement #B
Subtract #A from #B
The result is the firing pin drop, the amount of movement it makes to get to the primer.

Bob

 

[Dans40X]

If your 40-X looks like this one
Take measurement #A
Put the bolt back into the gun and into battery.
Take measurement #B
Subtract #A from #B
The result is the firing pin drop, the amount of movement it makes to get to the primer.

Bob

Early short shroud f/pin assy pictured.

Measure total firing pin fall not striker to sear hand off.

 

[Pete Wass]

A Remington pin fall is approximately 1/4" & is cock on open & cock on close....until it's corrected.

Drilling a 3/32" cross pin hole & parting off the aft end of said firing pin is elementary to increase pin fall if/when striker to sear hand off is accomplished.....correctly.

So, the bolt I've been working on has .220" -.010" 0r .0210" I think. So, is .250" the right amount of fall? My other 700 has .187" of pin fall. Appears it could use some more? So, measure forward from the existing pin hole the amount to get to .250 and drill another cross hole and part that amount off the rear of the pin?

Thanks,

Pete