Southbend Lathe

Keith I couldn't get a picture to come up.

If you want to look at some pictures of SB lathes Practical machinist has a South Bend forum with tons of info and pictures and knowledgeable people willing to help. Look under show me your lathe thread? .

Hal
 
Hal

Sorry about the picture. I'll look at that site. Thanks:)
 
Can anyone identify this Lathe. I think it is a Heavy 10?

I hope the picture comes up this time.
 

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Kieth, It is a 10L or heavy 10 and will have a 1&3/8 hole thru the spindle and most likely 48" ways. Kenny
 
You Want a Machinist Point Of View

Those old South Bends are relics. If they have been run hard, they rarely will turn round and true. They have Plain Bearings in the headstock, and the spindles will, over time, wear. They have a feature for keying up the bearings, but it is just a patch type fix. You can have the spindle hard chromed and ground, which does make for a great improvement.
I suppose for the hobbyist, it is better than no lathe at all. But in a real machine shop, it would serve little purpose.
But that doesn't stop people from buying them. There is almost a "cult" like status attributed to these old machines. Sort of like those shooters who pay $700+ for Remington 788's at Gunshows. I can remember when you couldn't give one away.
We actually scrapped one of those little South Bend's about ten years ago, wasn't worth the space it took up. I robbed the compound off of it, and we tossed it in the skip bucket......jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
Those old South Bends are relics. If they have been run hard, they rarely will turn round and true. They have Plain Bearings in the headstock, and the spindles will, over time, wear. They have a feature for keying up the bearings, but it is just a patch type fix. You can have the spindle hard chromed and ground, which does make for a great improvement.
I suppose for the hobbyist, it is better than no lathe at all. But in a real machine shop, it would serve little purpose.
But that doesn't stop people from buying them. There is almost a "cult" like status attributed to these old machines. Sort of like those shooters who pay $700+ for Remington 788's at Gunshows. I can remember when you couldn't give one away.
We actually scrapped one of those little South Bend's about ten years ago, wasn't worth the space it took up. I robbed the compound off of it, and we tossed it in the skip bucket......jackie
Click to expand...

Thanks Jackie, I agree. I've had people ask me why I don't use my old SB for chambering, and I usually tell them because I want to hit the paper. Mine is good for 3 point hitch pins and stuff, but she's pretty sloppy, and the chucks are badly worn as well. I really do not like the belt drive either, it's a hassle.
 
If the spindle is tight and runs true, what does the rest of it have to do with chambering? I think a belt drive in a homeshop environment gives a better finish.
I am not looking for one though.
Butch
 
Decisions Decisions Decisions Decisions

Thanks for the input. I guess my decision now is to spend the bigger bucks and get a Grizzly 4003 or buy this Southbend see if I really can learn enough to need a better one down the road. I have enrolled in a course starting next week perhaps that will help me decide.

Jackie, I hear and respect what you said. Should I take it to mean if I spent a $1000.00 on the SB it would all be wasted?

Butch, If the spindle is tight and runs true, would I be OK to chamber .22 rimfires. That is all I really want to do, but I want to be able to do them absolutely right. If the machine isn't capable, then it's the wrong machine.

Any recommendations???

Thanks again for the replies!!
 
I'm just saying that the rest of the lathe can be worn out and it will still be capable of a good chamber. It might not be up to snuff for making tight tolerance parts though. I'm speaking of chamber jobs only.
Butch
 
Kieth23,
I'm no expert ,never have been, but my first lathes were old, worn out and too small. That drove me to new China or used Ti" machines that were not worn out but needed more attention then a newbie could give them, a major disappointment.
All castings are not created equal but filler/putty and paint look nice on the showroom but don't help keep things straight and together. I know a lot of people that are looking for the mythical, new, $5000 14x40" precision lathe gear drive lathe, with good durability.

I liken old lathes to old airplanes. If a ~fifty year old light plane is a non-trainer, low hours and been well maintained, it can be a great value for personal travel and pleasure. If it's clapped out, poorly maintained or shoddily rebuilt it'll be a money pit.

Condition is everything!! Tooling is a big plus but if the lathe is worn out..... If you get a good South Bend Heavy 10 you will have a great machine to learn on and enjoy-maybe for a lifetime. If it's worn out just keep looking, good ones go quickly so you need a very experienced person to help you decide/buy or pay ($$) a very reputable dealer to find you one. There are other American and European lathes that are as good and much better then the Heavy 10 or the newer 13 for home gunsmithing but the SB's do have good parts availability and decent resale value. The influx of China machines is keeping the prices of "old iron" depressed, :). Other folks will have different opinions but I think belt driven lathes are great to learn on and for home shops that aren't "for profit".
 
Butch Lambert said:
I'm just saying that the rest of the lathe can be worn out and it will still be capable of a good chamber. It might not be up to snuff for making tight tolerance parts though. I'm speaking of chamber jobs only.
Butch
Click to expand...

What good is the chamber if the threads, breech and crown are lousy?
Remember, if we agree on everything, one of us is not thinking!


Ben
 
Ben,
Put your thinking cap on. How much taper would you have in a 1" long tenon even with real worn ways? You are locking up against a shoulder and not the threads. I will repeat what I said above, I wouldn't want a lathe with worn out ways, but can do a very good chamber job if the spindle is tight and has minimal runout. The ways have nothing to do with the crown either.
Butch
 
Just Giving A perspective

Learning on worn out machines is sort of like practicing with a Benchrest Rifle that is locked into a .300 agg capability. It might go bang, but that is about it.
But like has been said, if it is in good shape, it might be ok.
But keep in mind, some of the "fixes" that have to be done can eat up the pocket book pretty quick. And, as with many things, once the can of worms is open, they come crawling out pretty quick, and sometimes there are more than what you expected.
What is good shape to a professional, and what is good shape to the hobbyist are two different things. In our shop, the machine is there for one purpose, to make money. If it's limitations hinder this, then it is of not much use to us.

Heck,I probably shouldn't even be involved in this conversation......jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
Learning on worn out machines is sort of like practicing with a Benchrest Rifle that is locked into a .300 agg capability. It might go bang, but that is about it.
But like has been said, if it is in good shape, it might be ok.
But keep in mind, some of the "fixes" that have to be done can eat up the pocket book pretty quick. And, as with many things, once the can of worms is open, they come crawling out pretty quick, and sometimes there are more than what you expected.
What is good shape to a professional, and what is good shape to the hobbyist are two different things. In our shop, the machine is there for one purpose, to make money. If it's limitations hinder this, then it is of not much use to us.

Heck,I probably shouldn't even be involved in this conversation......jackie
Click to expand...

Jackie,

Yeah, and most companies throw us out too, when we're worn out, so, I guess that's why guys like Butch stick up for the old lathes.

Butch,

You've moved the goal post on me when you say "tight spindle". When I think of a worn out SB, I think of mine... That is, pre-war, with loose everything. I turn my x-feed twice, before th rest starts moving. I know, it can be managed, but when I get on this new Clausing variable speed (at work), it feel so nice. Although, I could never talk mother into a $25k for a lathe for my hobbies. She's already moaning about $5k for the barrels, actions and reamers I bought this year.

Ben
 
I have two of the old SB 10s. The best of the two has wear but the capability of the lathes is still better than the operator. A machinist would probably throw up his hands in dispair if he was forced to run one but I get along fine with either one. The best lathe in the world in my hands might not turn out much better work. Used parts are easy to come by. You will not be happy with one that is totally worn out. If you can afford the new Asian lathe with tooling it would be cheaper that a rebuild by far. Kenny
 
jackie schmidt said:
Learning on worn out machines is sort of like practicing with a Benchrest Rifle that is locked into a .300 agg capability. It might go bang, but that is about it.
Click to expand...
I disagree. There are literally thousands of tech school and high school shops that still use worn out and crashed South Bend Heavy 10's. There is not a lot to really wear out on them except the feed nuts, ways and spindle bearings.

SBL spindle bearings are sleeve bearings and are adjustable for free-play. A worn sleeve bearing will not "run out", it will just create some slop that may result in chatter in certain conditions of turning and boring with certain tooling but it will not create out-of-round diameters.

Worn ball or roller bearings can create out-of-round diameters if the balls, rollers, or races become chipped.

The bedway wear is only a factor if you are turning long diameters.

A worn tailstock, like Butch states, is not a factor in chamber reaming unless you try to use some of the so called "floating" reamer holders.

SBL Heavy 10's were made literally by the hundreds of thousands so used parts are available in many places. South Bend Lathe Co still offers new parts, even for the older models. I have a 1944 H-10 made for the US Navy and I got a cross feed nut for it from South Bend in 2 days.

It has been said many times, a good machinist can take a worn lathe and make good parts, but a bad machinist can not take a new lathe and make good parts.

How does one get to be a good machinist? Practice!! Practice on a good lathe like a SBL H-20 or Monarch EE or the like.

Much of this junk coming in now from Communist China is just that-junk. It will look good and has new paint, but run it for a while and it is junk. The type castings and bearings used on much of these imports are fine for the short term but go out and look in the machining industry and see how many of these imports they have.

In my 40+ year career as, among other things, as Manufacturing Engineer for a large chemical company (18,000+ employees) and as an educator and a technical adviser to three technical community colleges, and as a designer of US Department of Labor Bureau of Apprentice Training machinist certification programs I have visited many many school and industry shops. They have all used South Bend Lathes for some of the training.

I can give you a long list of benchrest gunsmiths that use SBL H-10's also.
 
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I got a wide 9"

it's mfg date is 1933 been roughed-up a bit by operators who took their machining shortcomings out on the equipt., but she cleaned up nice and seems to do real good work for my use anyway, :)
 
Depending on the age of the South Bend it may be useable.
If the lathe has poured bearings you might have a problem. I know of no one still able to pour and spot-in a set of babbit bearings. If they exist, more power to you. I used to work in a shop that had a lathe called a Hendy. It was un-Hendy(pun intended). If you wanted to cut threads you had to engage the leadscrew and stop and reverse the lathe at the end of the cut to back up and start again. It cut a good thread but was a pain in the butt to run. I agree with Jerry, a poor mechanic blames his tools.

Mike Swartz
 
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