Small scratch inside my new barrel: Do I cut and recrown?

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kevin1

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Small scratch inside my new Shilen barrel: Do I cut and recrown?

I just got this rifle build. It has a Shilen Ratchet barrel. I noticed a small scratch inside the barrel. I use a Tipton carbon rod for 20 cal and have never scratched any of my 22 barrels. So I’m pretty sure it was there when I got the rifle. The rifle seems to shoot ok. I haven’t run any high-end ammo and I was only using a 10X scope. Next week I’m planning to shoot it with Eley match, RWS R50 and a Leupold VX3 6.5-20 EFR.
That scratch inside the barrel and those little nicks on the crown are really bugging me. Especially on a new build.
Do you think this will affect accuracy? Should I just go ahead and have the barrel cut 1” (where the scratch is) and recrown it?



 
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Kevin, I would shoot the rifle 1st. But with that in your mind you'll always wonder if that's why you shot went somewhere else. It will likely drive you nuts!
Does it cross over a land or is it in the groove? I wouldn't worry if it's in a groove. I'd cut it if it crossed a land.
I'm no gunsmith though. I would run this all by him & get his thoughts where its a new build.

Keith
 
Those couple of small scratches are on one land. The q-tip doesn’t catch anywhere. The nicks on the crown are purely cosmetic. The actual start of lands is completely fine.
 
You're right...I'll always be wondering if it's that scratch causing any future flyers. I'll have it cut and recrowned. Not to mention that I don't like the shape of this muzzle. I'd rather have maybe an 11 degree crown.
 
True...I won't see it after a few rounds...But I'll know it's there!


I'm going to have this done by a local smith.
Question:
Do you think I should the smith to find a tight spot to cut the barrel or it doesn't matter?
I was thinking of going with an 11 degree crown. But after doing some reading it appears that it might be better for accuracy to stay with the same crown type that I currently have (90 degree). Can you guys confirm that?
 
I feel like I’m not as knowledge as I would like to be in this area. So I just purchased The Art of Rimfire Accuracy and spend the last hour going through it.
Bill doesn’t seem to see anything wrong with an 11-degree crown. It will be no more or less accurate than a 90-degree crown.
I also read extensively about slugging the barrel to determine where to cut the barrel (tightest and roundest spot on the barrel).

I’ll go see my local gunsmith on Tuesday. I’m just not sure if he’s aware of slugging technics….He does have a stellar reputation and has built centerfire rifles for PRS guys at national level….So he might know. I’ll see.
 
Have you talked with the smith you had build the gun in the first place? That would be where I'd start.

I don't care how good a gunsmith is with building centerfires as 99% of them have never worked on competitive rimfire guns, so won't have a clue of what you're talking about. Oh sure, they might have heard about slugging, and be aware of there being a "tight spot", but being aware of something, and actually having worked around it are 2 completely different things.

If you want it done quick, go with the local centerfire guy and hope for the best.
If you want it done right, send it out to someone who knows.
Otherwise, either just leave it alone and shoot it.

I speak from experience as my first rimfire bench gun was done by a highly respected local centerfire gunsmith. A Hell of a nice guy with a stellar reputation for building winning (centerfire) guns. But, when it came to rimfires I found differently. Then the next guy, one who was supposedly the best rimfire smith around, I decided not to go with when he told me no shooter on earth could possibly outshoot a FACTORY BARRELED 40X. Enough said!

I ended up going with a friend who is a mechanist by trade and whose hobby is building black powder guns, along with shooting rimfires. That 40X instantly became a winner as he truly did understand what needed doing.

Just be careful to spend your money - once - in the right place, or you could end up more fruatrated than if you leave everything as-is.

Good luck my friend.

Dave Shattuck
 
crowns

Would I be wrong to suggest that recessed and/or 11,90 degree what have you crowns are only for protection of the crown proper,and have no bearing on accuracy as long as the true crown of the barrel is true? True,true dat? Hell,I dunno,y;all tell me. But until I shot it,I wouldn't sweat it.
 
Dave Shattuck said:
Have you talked with the smith you had build the gun in the first place? That would be where I'd start.

I don't care how good a gunsmith is with building centerfires as 99% of them have never worked on competitive rimfire guns, so won't have a clue of what you're talking about. Oh sure, they might have heard about slugging, and be aware of there being a "tight spot", but being aware of something, and actually having worked around it are 2 completely different things.

If you want it done quick, go with the local centerfire guy and hope for the best.
If you want it done right, send it out to someone who knows.
Otherwise, either just leave it alone and shoot it.

I speak from experience as my first rimfire bench gun was done by a highly respected local centerfire gunsmith. A Hell of a nice guy with a stellar reputation for building winning (centerfire) guns. But, when it came to rimfires I found differently. Then the next guy, one who was supposedly the best rimfire smith around, I decided not to go with when he told me no shooter on earth could possibly outshoot a FACTORY BARRELED 40X. Enough said!

I ended up going with a friend who is a mechanist by trade and whose hobby is building black powder guns, along with shooting rimfires. That 40X instantly became a winner as he truly did understand what needed doing.

Just be careful to spend your money - once - in the right place, or you could end up more fruatrated than if you leave everything as-is.

Good luck my friend.

Dave Shattuck
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The original smith says he has slug the barrel and it gets tighter as you approach the muzzle. He doesn’t see any issues cutting the barrel behind the scratch (it’s going to be less than 0.5”).
The local smith showed me an 11-deg recessed crown on one of his build and I liked it a lot. I asked him to do the same after he guaranteed that it won’t be less concentric than a regular 90 deg crown. He said it’s more work, but it’s won’t be detrimental to the accuracy.
I really need that scratch gone because it will drive me crazy. After a couple of range sessions, I get the impression that the barrel needs arounds 15 rounds before it settles in and I think it’s because of that scratch. It can very well be me trying figure out the gun, but until that scratch isn’t gone, we won’t know for sure.


Dave,
There is a section in Bill Calfee’s book where you can read “BTW it’s very interesting to note that some of the hottest shooting barrels in BR50 today are used rimefire target barrels from old Remington 40X’s and Model 37’s. Figure that out.”
 
.

If there is a scratch/gouge in the barrel near the crown there may also be occlusions elsewhere in the barrel that can only be detected by a thorough borescope examination, better have that done before wasting more time and effort recrowning a barrel that has other problems, why did'nt the original gunsmith find this flaw when doing the original work?
 
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The local gunsmith just told me that none of his 3 pilots for his 22 indicator rod will fit the barrel because the barrel is slightly tighter than usual. So nothing is going to be done to the barrel until he figures out the correct pilot size he needs to order. I'll pick up the gun tomorrow and bring it back to him once he gets the correct pilot. I guess it's a good thing that the barrel is tighter than the usual at the muzzle. I'm just gonna shoot the gun with that scratch for now.
 
Here's a thought. Maybe consider sending your match barrel to somebody that actually knows WTF they are doing. Putting a match crown on a match barrel is not a real tough proposition for somebody with a little experience. For your guy to tell you this is tighter than usual??? Translation, he does mostly 10/22's and mosbergs because it is no tighter than an average match grade barrel.
Your money....your barrel.....just sayin.
 
tim said:
Here's a thought. Maybe consider sending your match barrel to somebody that actually knows WTF they are doing. Putting a match crown on a match barrel is not a real tough proposition for somebody with a little experience. For your guy to tell you this is tighter than usual??? Translation, he does mostly 10/22's and mosbergs because it is no tighter than an average match grade barrel.
Your money....your barrel.....just sayin.
Click to expand...

You're right. After talking to him some more, he doesn't seem to have much experience with rimefires. He said his Lilja is slightly larger than this Shilen. He said he will call Shilen and order the right pilot from PTG. I looked at my barrel and noticed some additional marks inside. I bet he tried to force one of his pilots. I have another local smith in mind who knows what he's doing but the wait will be around 2 weeks. I'll go with that one.
 
Two weeks? That's a no-brainer. But, let's just hope guy #2 knows what he's doing better than guy #1. Either that, or try to get it done right by someone who isn't going to ruin your new barrel and see what the wait is, especially now the season has started.

Go back to post #10 and read my comments again.

Dave
 
Scott at Live Oak Accuracy cut and crowned the barrel.
I have never seen such a beautiful crown. He polished it to a mirror finish!

Look at this beautiful crown. I highly recommend his work.

 
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