Scope/ Rifle Cant Problem

OK CHRISTOPHER here's how far I've taken it before. :)

On a round actioned gun like a Rem 700 that has been rebedded it can be a royal pita to find the bore. Or a level reference point.

I do it this way...... first I remove the bolt and with the rifle solidly set in an Uncle Buds Bulls Bag I level at the recoil pad or butt with a small level by plumbing the top and bottom holes. Now by backing off and eyeballing past the level I can see if the screw-screw-bore-crosshair are stacked. If this isn't possible then I suspend the rifle between two tables with the forend bag on one and the rear bag on another and hang a 12" hunk of 1/4X28 allthread from the front action hole and plumb/align to this.........the allthread is a second choice, a backup, but it's perty foolproof.

NOW..... you can level the scope because you've found the centerline above the bore. And once you've gotten this far it's not too big a stretch to get a scope level installed. Darrell Holland makes a real beauty.

It's actually quite hard to get all the alignments accomplished but necessary for figuring shots out ahead of time.

And taking long shots without a level is just throwing lead.

al
 
al,

What's the possibility & risks of making a wee contrivance that would let you take a level off the bolt lug ways - a flat that slides up the ways maybe with a Tee piece off the back all milled flat & squre to carry a small bubble level?

John
 
John Kielly said:
al,

What's the possibility & risks of making a wee contrivance that would let you take a level off the bolt lug ways - a flat that slides up the ways maybe with a Tee piece off the back all milled flat & squre to carry a small bubble level?

John
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Hey! That's a good idea.... I might just make one of these. I'm all about wee contrivances, drawers full.

al
 
Al, make sure you put a slot in............

it to work in a Rem. receiver. I've tried a small level in there and the lip in the right raceway, at the breech, goofs that up. On the newer Rems, the anti-bind spline down the right raceway may have to be accomodated. I've also leveled the rifle, leveled the scope, and still found an error, an error that WILL show up, even at 100. That photo of the rifle, at least to me, appears as if the rifle leans slightly to the right, but the 'scope looks to be level, as one looks at the top turret. I have frequently mounted a 'scope and have people say to me, "The scope's CROOKED", a few times they have been right, but more often I've removed the bolt and had them put it in firing position and look through the 'scope, then walked around front and could see they were canting the whole rig. Then, when they didn't believe me, I had them repeat it in front of a full-length mirror. Somtimes, that was the clincher. I do remember days when loosening, leveling, RE-leveling, re-tightening had to be repeated three times, to the point I thought I was going crazy(and that ain't a long trip!!!). :D:rolleyes:
 
brian roberts said:
it to work in a Rem. receiver. I've tried a small level in there and the lip in the right raceway, at the breech, goofs that up. On the newer Rems, the anti-bind spline down the right raceway may have to be accomodated. I've also leveled the rifle, leveled the scope, and still found an error, an error that WILL show up, even at 100. That photo of the rifle, at least to me, appears as if the rifle leans slightly to the right, but the 'scope looks to be level, as one looks at the top turret. I have frequently mounted a 'scope and have people say to me, "The scope's CROOKED", a few times they have been right, but more often I've removed the bolt and had them put it in firing position and look through the 'scope, then walked around front and could see they were canting the whole rig. Then, when they didn't believe me, I had them repeat it in front of a full-length mirror. Somtimes, that was the clincher. I do remember days when loosening, leveling, RE-leveling, re-tightening had to be repeated three times, to the point I thought I was going crazy(and that ain't a long trip!!!). :D:rolleyes:
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Kayo on the slot...

As far as the canting thing.... yup!

I spent a few years behind the counter doing this for a living and I learned ways to show the customer that the scope is absolutely level WHEN IT'S ABOVE THE BORE.

I still keep a rifle cradle set up at all times so's I can level the action, then mount the scope directly above the bore, then level the scope.

Canting is a huge problem, as is the crosshair not being above the bore..... NOT the same problem :)

al
 
In my youth I sinned mightily. I started out at the age of 14 doing the body building through weight lifting and continued for many years. When I got my first job as a general gunsmith I came to realize that when I mounted rifle scopes my physique was a guarantee that when I mounted a rifle scope it was going to have a cant that to me was vertical on the vertical wire. Lucky a fellow I knew showed me how to check by moving the rifle away from my shoulder and moving the rifle in front of me and looking at the vertical wire and looking at the rifle. Man was that ever and eye opener. All the Weaver rings were instantly obvious as having the vertical wire laying over to one side. It's the nature of the design that does this more than any other reason. Now a days I have a grid prop, that is held under the rifle with a rubber band that shows vertical and allows the scope to be moved into the correct position.


I was told that as long as the cant was the same for the sight in that the rifle would always print the same for the shot? Well until I started doing benchrest that seemed to be true. Then I started to test this theory and did not find that to be perfectly true. The further the distance the further off the shot would print. Still to this day I check any scope by holding the rifle in front of me and check. You would be surpriced ar how many rifles and scopes I find leaning to one side or the other.
 
Big Al said:
I was told that as long as the cant was the same for the sight in that the rifle would always print the same for the shot?
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As long as the cant is the same, the load is the same and the yardage is the same this is true. No matter HOW you set the thing up you can get the bullet to meet the scope at one point. Group BR guys have some truly bizarre scope mount assy's that work fine because BR is a tightly controlled environment. They would be lost in a hunting or mixed range situation.

al
 
alinwa said:
As long as the cant is the same, the load is the same and the yardage is the same this is true. No matter HOW you set the thing up you can get the bullet to meet the scope at one point. Group BR guys have some truly bizarre scope mount assy's that work fine because BR is a tightly controlled environment. They would be lost in a hunting or mixed range situation.

al
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Truer words were seldom if ever put into print. This especially is true in hunting or any situation were unknown ranges are present and have to be dealt with by the shooter. KD ranges in the military is one game, but in the real world of shooting how often is KD really present?

This entire subject brings to mind the problems of laser ranging devises, and just how unreliable they can be if they are not used with methods that seem to be unknown by the users.
 
I really hate to weigh in with an Eggspurt...........

BUT, Mike Venturino, :eek: "BPCR Target Sights", Rifle #233, Sept.-Oct. '07 Pg.72 1st paragraph SEZ: "For silhouette shooting......." Sorry about that....;)but I didn't, offhand, remember where I'd seen that written up. I DO know that not all gun-shop commandos, including the owners, know about this. I told a friend (over the 'phone) he could mount the 'scope he'd just gotten, then realized he didn't have the right equipment(which I'm trying to remedy), So he asked me what to ask the fellow in his local shop to do. I told him to make sure the pitch and roll were out by leveling both ways, then..... When I spoke to him again, he told me his guy said he didn't know why, etc., etc.,..... But he did as asked. Long story short, the flat-top AR is boring from the bench and offhand for everyone that shoots it. Boring, as in offhand shooting at claybirds, then all the pieces from same picked off until only a BenchRester could pick off the pieces of dust remaining......:eek: :D:D;)
 
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