Rumor!! Rumor!! Rumor!!

tonykharper

Well-known member
There is a rumor that Jerry Stiller, Hole Shot Arms, is in the process of building 33 Pin Around Spring (PAS) actions!!!!

This is simply a rumor, so don't hold me to it, but if true, this will be the biggest story in RFBR this year and maybe even the last 5 years.

I would really like to get on the list for one of these but I'm sure they will be long gone before I'm offered one.

TKH (4628)
 
Tony, you’re flogging that mule pretty hard. The latest is a couple dozen, and I bet you can buy a few if you wish.
Lets remember, Jerry has opined more than once about extensive testing with nothing apparent, and I suspect he’s responsible for more valid testing than the next 10 smiths, but a willingness to turn out a few, kinda sounds like that.

Let’s start a pool about what the WLM will then take issue with, you know, because he’s such an objective, honorable type guy.

Nice to see him completely misrepresent in his own closed little backyard what Stiller posted here about top builds. What a complete slimeball.
 
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Tony, you’re flogging that mule pretty hard. The latest is a couple dozen, and I bet you can buy a few if you wish.
Lets remember, Jerry has opined more than once about extensive testing with nothing apparent, and I suspect he’s responsible for more valid testing than the next 10 smiths, but a willingness to turn out a few, kinda sounds like that.

Let’s start a pool about what the WLM will then take issue with, you know, because he’s such an objective, honorable type guy.

Nice to see him completely misrepresent in his own closed little backyard what Stiller posted here about top builds. What a complete slimeball.

Tim,

I'm not flogging anybody's mule. John Prince started the rumor, Slick confirmed it. All I did is repeat it.

If Jerry does this it will simply provide people a choice between PAS and SAP. I see nothing wrong with that.

Of course, Jerry is likely to harden the actions and that will put some people off, especially the ones that like to tinker, but at least it will be another option available.

Variety is the spice of life.

TKH (4628)
 
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Correction Correction Correction!

Tim,

I'm not flogging anybody's mule. John Prince started the rumor, Slick confirmed it. All I did is repeat it.

If Jerry does this it will simply provide people a choice between PAS and SAP. I see nothing wrong with that.

Of course, Jerry is likely to harden the actions and that will put some people off, especially the ones that like to tinker, but at least it will be another option available.

Variety is the spice of life.

TKH (4628)

Correction.

I took this post by John Prince to be a rumor about Stiller making PAS actions.

"THE LIST

(Starting a list of all those Holeshot actions shooters that are praying for Jerry to develop PAS ignition. Please don't all reply at once and overwhelm the servers.

6084jwp)"

Then Slick Willy post this. ("He`s Building 33 now ! No LB/RP thats why John has a list for the 33 Started for The New PAS Beast ! Get in line you may be too late!")

I took between those two posts that it was a rumor that we may see a Hole Shot PAS action.

John Prince now says ("(Mr TKH is saying I started a rumor that Jerry Stiller is going to build some PAS actions. I have not done this in any way shape or form.")

Stiller posted this (" This has been an interesting story to say the least. I am pretty sure you all seem to know more about what's going on than I do.")

Sorry if I got anyone 's hopes up. I would think this pretty much puts to bed the rumor and I would think If there was ever a chance of a Stiller PAS action, it is dead now.

TKH (4628)
 
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Correction.

I took this post by John Prince to be a rumor about Stiller making PAS actions.

"THE LIST

(Starting a list of all those Holeshot actions shooters that are praying for Jerry to develop PAS ignition. Please don't all reply at once and overwhelm the servers.

6084jwp)"

Then Slick Willy post this. ("He`s Building 33 now ! No LB/RP thats why John has a list for the 33 Started for The New PAS Beast ! Get in line you may be too late!")

I took between those two posts that it was a rumor that we may see a Hole Shot PAS action.

John Prince now says ("(Mr TKH is saying I started a rumor that Jerry Stiller is going to build some PAS actions. I have not done this in any way shape or form.")

Stiller posted this (" This has been an interesting story to say the least. I am pretty sure you all seem to know more about what's going on than I do.")

Sorry if I got anyone 's hopes up. I would think this pretty much puts to bed the rumor and I would think If there was ever a chance of a Stiller PAS action, it is dead now.

TKH (4628)

Tony:

Not starting any new rumors here.......but I heard the 6 o'clock offset chamber is making a comeback!! Place your order today!! LOL

Kev (OU812)
 
Like I have said in the past

I started a batch of bolt bodies and firing pins about 4 years ago. I run out of mill time and didn't get the pins finished. I was just going to build them because some customers wanted them and at the time, a sale was a sale and a service to the customer. About that same time Calfee started running his mouth about the same stuff he still does and turned me off to finishing them, and basically just screwed anyone out of one that wanted one. Kinda funny, because he thinks that his continuous barrage of BS will convince me to do them and in reality, it stopped the project. I decided if he ever just dropped it for a time, I would go ahead and finish them. As it turns out, he seems to never stop, so we were probably a heart attack or a stroke away from getting them built.

In the last few months I looked at them again when I had some time and decided to make some enhancements to the design to correct some inherent flaws in the PAS design. I updated my design on the computer, picked around and found all the parts I already had and built a few more. There are at least 3 areas of concern in the current implementations of the PAS design that need addressing that can be fixed, and I think I have them taken care off. There are a few that are still inherent that cannot. I am far from done, but I may have (or just take) the time to finish them out. I may try to get them done on the next batch I send to heat treat and melonite.

I am not going to make a list, decide on a price, cut a deal, etc etc etc until they are done and tested. IF they don't work to my satisfaction, they will just go away. When they are finished, I will see how many come out, decide on a price and go from there. So as Paul Harvey used to say, "that's the rest of the story". (Yes, I really am, or at least feel, that old that I remember Paul Harvey)
 
I started a batch of bolt bodies and firing pins about 4 years ago. I run out of mill time and didn't get the pins finished. I was just going to build them because some customers wanted them and at the time, a sale was a sale and a service to the customer. About that same time Calfee started running his mouth about the same stuff he still does and turned me off to finishing them, and basically just screwed anyone out of one that wanted one. Kinda funny, because he thinks that his continuous barrage of BS will convince me to do them and in reality, it stopped the project. I decided if he ever just dropped it for a time, I would go ahead and finish them. As it turns out, he seems to never stop, so we were probably a heart attack or a stroke away from getting them built.

In the last few months I looked at them again when I had some time and decided to make some enhancements to the design to correct some inherent flaws in the PAS design. I updated my design on the computer, picked around and found all the parts I already had and built a few more. There are at least 3 areas of concern in the current implementations of the PAS design that need addressing that can be fixed, and I think I have them taken care off. There are a few that are still inherent that cannot. I am far from done, but I may have (or just take) the time to finish them out. I may try to get them done on the next batch I send to heat treat and melonite.

I am not going to make a list, decide on a price, cut a deal, etc etc etc until they are done and tested. IF they don't work to my satisfaction, they will just go away. When they are finished, I will see how many come out, decide on a price and go from there. So as Paul Harvey used to say, "that's the rest of the story". (Yes, I really am, or at least feel, that old that I remember Paul Harvey)


Jerry, I was already old when Paul was on the air. Good luck with your project. Nice knowing your looking for a step up.
 
I started a batch of bolt bodies and firing pins about 4 years ago. I run out of mill time and didn't get the pins finished. I was just going to build them because some customers wanted them and at the time, a sale was a sale and a service to the customer. About that same time Calfee started running his mouth about the same stuff he still does and turned me off to finishing them, and basically just screwed anyone out of one that wanted one. Kinda funny, because he thinks that his continuous barrage of BS will convince me to do them and in reality, it stopped the project. I decided if he ever just dropped it for a time, I would go ahead and finish them. As it turns out, he seems to never stop, so we were probably a heart attack or a stroke away from getting them built.

In the last few months I looked at them again when I had some time and decided to make some enhancements to the design to correct some inherent flaws in the PAS design. I updated my design on the computer, picked around and found all the parts I already had and built a few more. There are at least 3 areas of concern in the current implementations of the PAS design that need addressing that can be fixed, and I think I have them taken care off. There are a few that are still inherent that cannot. I am far from done, but I may have (or just take) the time to finish them out. I may try to get them done on the next batch I send to heat treat and melonite.

I am not going to make a list, decide on a price, cut a deal, etc etc etc until they are done and tested. IF they don't work to my satisfaction, they will just go away. When they are finished, I will see how many come out, decide on a price and go from there. So as Paul Harvey used to say, "that's the rest of the story". (Yes, I really am, or at least feel, that old that I remember Paul Harvey)

Jerry, I used to listen to Paul Harvey, loved the way he told his stories. I wish we had someone like that now in this day and age. It would be nice to take some time, and just listen to his stories on the radio. Thanks for sharing your story and project details. Good luck to you and the project!

Take care,

Larry Mills
 
I started a batch of bolt bodies and firing pins about 4 years ago. I run out of mill time and didn't get the pins finished. I was just going to build them because some customers wanted them and at the time, a sale was a sale and a service to the customer. About that same time Calfee started running his mouth about the same stuff he still does and turned me off to finishing them, and basically just screwed anyone out of one that wanted one. Kinda funny, because he thinks that his continuous barrage of BS will convince me to do them and in reality, it stopped the project. I decided if he ever just dropped it for a time, I would go ahead and finish them. As it turns out, he seems to never stop, so we were probably a heart attack or a stroke away from getting them built.

In the last few months I looked at them again when I had some time and decided to make some enhancements to the design to correct some inherent flaws in the PAS design. I updated my design on the computer, picked around and found all the parts I already had and built a few more. There are at least 3 areas of concern in the current implementations of the PAS design that need addressing that can be fixed, and I think I have them taken care off. There are a few that are still inherent that cannot. I am far from done, but I may have (or just take) the time to finish them out. I may try to get them done on the next batch I send to heat treat and melonite.

I am not going to make a list, decide on a price, cut a deal, etc etc etc until they are done and tested. IF they don't work to my satisfaction, they will just go away. When they are finished, I will see how many come out, decide on a price and go from there. So as Paul Harvey used to say, "that's the rest of the story". (Yes, I really am, or at least feel, that old that I remember Paul Harvey)

Jerry,

I've been trying to decide how excited to be over the prospects of a new Stiller built RFBR action.

At this point my interest in RFBR is only that the sport grows and prospers. For years I was driven by the thrill of competition but that has passed.

The sport has been good to me, and I hope many others find the same enjoyment as I have from the sport.

All my encouragement about building new rifles and actions is the "build it and they will come" thing. A new action will cause more rifles to be built and more shooters to shoot them.

The same if you make your new series of rifles. More rifles more shooters. It will be a net gain for the entire sport.

As everyone knows your support for the sport is unparalleled, you as a sponsor, builder, supplier, and competitor has made a real difference in the popularity of RFBR.

I understand your feelings about the PAS and SAP thing and how it has divided competitors.

For a long time, I thought it was a good thing. I thought it helped perpetuate and motivate competition. Now I'm not so sure.

I took the SAP/PAS thing kinda like the Ford/Chevy thing in drag racing.

Back in the early 60s in Nashville Tn. There were guys that were dye in the wool Chevy guys and there were just as many guys that were dye in the wool Ford guys.

When they got together Friday nights at the local drag strip it was on. Winners had bragging rites until the next Friday night.

A funny thing happened. While these Ford and Chevy guys were duking it out this strange newcomer entered the scene. First it was a 413 Dodge Wedge later a 426 Dodge wedge.

This beast had of all things, an automatic typewriter transmission.

No one thought Chevy and Ford would be knocked off their pedestal. But around Nashville that is what happened.

I'm hoping your new action will not be looked at as simply as PAS/SAP but as a new paradigm, a Hemi if you will.

TKH (4628)
 
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Jerry,

I've been trying to decide how excited to be over the prospects of a new Stiller built RFBR action.

At this point my interest in RFBR is only that the sport grows and prospers. For years I was driven by the thrill of competition but that has passed.

The sport has been good to me, and I hope many others find the same enjoyment as I have from the sport.

All my encouragement about building new rifles and actions is the "build it and they will come" thing. A new action will cause more rifles to be built and more shooters to shoot them.

The same if you make your new series of rifles. More rifles more shooters. It will be a net gain for the entire sport.

As everyone knows your support for the sport is unparalleled, you as a sponsor, builder, supplier, and competitor has made a real difference in the popularity of RFBR.

I understand your feelings about the PAS and SAP thing and how it has divided competitors.

For a long time, I thought it was a good thing. I thought it helped perpetuate and motivate competition. Now I'm not so sure.

I took the SAP/PAS thing kinda like the Ford/Chevy thing in drag racing.

Back in the early 60s in Nashville Tn. There were guys that were dye in the wool Chevy guys and there were just as many guys that were dye in the wool Ford guys.

When they got together Friday nights at the local drag strip it was on. Winners had bragging rites until the next Friday night.

A funny thing happened. While these Ford and Chevy guys were duking it out this strange newcomer entered the scene. First it was a 413 Dodge Hemi later a 426 Dodge hemi.

This beast had of all things, an automatic typewriter transmission.

No one thought Chevy and Ford would be knocked off their pedestal. But around Nashville that is what happened.

I'm hoping your new action will not be looked at as simply as PAS/SAP but as a new paradigm, a Hemi if you will.

TKH (4628)



A 413 Hemi? Never heard of one. Maybe a 413 or 426 wedge?
I do understand your thoughts.
 
The 413 was a wedge, the 426 was a Hemi and a cross ram was an intake manifold which may or may not have been on top as an option. Just sayin. Hemi was major competition for me back when I owned a 67 Vette, 427/435 hp.
 
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The 413 was a wedge, the 426 was a Hemi and a cross ram was an intake manifold which may or may not have been on top as an option. Just sayin. Hemi was major competition for me back when I owned a 67 Vette, 427/435 hp.

There was a 426 Max Wedge prior to the 426 Hemi. If memory serves me, the Max Wedge came out about 62 or 63 and Hemi a few years later.
 
There was a 426 Max Wedge prior to the 426 Hemi. If memory serves me, the Max Wedge came out about 62 or 63 and Hemi a few years later.

I stand corrected, I forgot about that one, there were so few before they went to the hemi heads.
Sorry all……back to shooting
 
In ‘64 there was a 426 “Street “ also, I had one, single 4 bbl and hyd. cam. The first Hemi was in ‘64 and sold only as a race car. It had small bucket seat from an A100 van and no back seat. I believe it had 13 to 1 compression. A few years back I built a ‘65 A990 clone. It had a 500CI Hemi and made 620hp.
 
In ‘64 there was a 426 “Street “ also, I had one, single 4 bbl and hyd. cam. The first Hemi was in ‘64 and sold only as a race car. It had small bucket seat from an A100 van and no back seat. I believe it had 13 to 1 compression. A few years back I built a ‘65 A990 clone. It had a 500CI Hemi and made 620hp.


Actually Chrysler came out with the Hemi in 1951 as a 331". Many versions from 241" were built and used in the Dodges and Desoto
 
Butch, you’re absolutely right. I should never have used the word first. I’m 78 and before I could drive I could tell you what every car on the road was, what year and model. What engine and what horsepower. Now all cars look like Hyundai’s, maybe that’s because they are. Oh, a few years ago I had a 241 in the garage, was going to put it in a hot rod. Never happened.
 
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