Rule question

Boyd Allen

Active member
Looking at an old rule book, I noticed a rule about sleeves and bedding blocks that is not in the current rules on the NBRSA web site. Going back through the minutes of BOD meetings, I found a record of the adoption of this rule. This was from the 1967 minutes.

"The following actions apply to the Heavy Varmint, Light Varmint and Sporter rifle classes
only.
Moved by Hobbs, seconded by Bench that the so-called bedding devices be allowed as long
as they contact on more than the lower 180’ of the barrel for a length not to exceed 4”
forward of the receiver, and that it is not permanently affixed. Voting: Yes, three (3); No,
five. Motion lost.
Moved by Cornelison, seconded by Bonner that the barrel may be attached to the receiver,
blocks or sleeve or combination thereof for a distance of no more than four
(4) inches measured from the face of the bolt. The overall length of the receiver, sleeve or
blocks or combination thereof not to exceed fourteen (14) inches.
Voting yes: Cornelison, Bonner, Bench, Hobbs, Kelbly and Freund.
Voting No: Walker and Kappel. Motion carried by majority.
Moved by Cornelison, seconded by Bench to amend the above motion to include the word
bedding before the word block. Two places, Voting yes, Cornelison, Bonner, Bench, Hobbs,
Kelbly and Freund. Voting No: Walker & Kappel."

My question is, was the rule changed, or is its omission in the rules on the website simply an unintended oversight?
 
Rule Books - - -

Boyd
I read Rule 40 under definitions. There has been a change in wording. Sleeves has been left out of the definition for SP,LV,HV. Can't explain why.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

seem to have a way of shedding words as time goes along. :eek:

I wonder what position IBS will take on this issue?
 
I Gotta Get Out More

This is the first time I have heard of this. My curent rule book is the #36 addition. I had no idea that the BOD had voted on, and done away with, all of that barrel block stuff that has been the rule for over 30 years.

Did anybody else out there know this. I can't believe that this slipped in under my radar. My Region Director, Scott Hunter, sure never said anything about this.

Like I said. Maybe I need to get out more.........jackie
 
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It is in the IBS rules.

"B. RIFLES
1) HEAVY BENCH RIFLE Any rifle having a barrel 18 or more inches long, measuring from the face of the bolt to the muzzle and having a safely operated firing mechanism. Electric triggers are allowed. Unrestricted rests are allowed (See II.H)
2) HEAVY VARMINT RIFLE Any rifle having a safe manually operated firing mechanism, weighing not more than 13 1/2 pounds inclusive of sight, with a stock having a flat or convex forearm and total stock width not more than 3", having a toe formed by a straight line drawn from the toe of a substantially vertical butt with a 13 1/4 inch pull starting at a point at least 4 inches below the axis of the bore and extending forward to the centerline of the barrel at a point no more than 18 inches forward of the boltface, a barrel not less than 18 inches long, a diameter at and not more than 5 inches ahead of the boltface of not more than 1.250 inches and a diameter at any point between the muzzle and 5 inches in front of the boltface not greater than would be defined by a straight taper between such point 5 inches in front of the boltface at 1.250 inches diameter and the muzzle at .9 inch diameter at 29 inches. The barrel may be attached to the receiver, bedding blocks or sleeve or combination thereof for a distance of no more than four (4) inches, measured from the face of the bolt. The overall length of the receiver, bedding block or sleeve or combination thereof not to exceed 14". (Maximum dimensions shall not include normal scope blocks or sight bases.) Epoxy or equivalent plastic bedding compound without parting compound, of the bottom 180 degree of any portion of the barreled action on Varmint class rifles is permitted. Remington 40XB stocks, as produced, may be used without alteration, provided there exists no interaction between fore-end and sand bag that would constitute a guiding means. Electric triggers are allowed
3) LIGHT VARMINT RIFLE Any rifle of not more than 10 1/2 pounds in weight inclusive of sights and otherwise meeting the requirements of the Heavy Varmint Rifle
4) SPORTER
a. Centerfire: Any rifle otherwise meeting the requirements of the Light Varmint Rifle, but of not less than caliber .230"
b. Rimfire: Any rifle conforming to the specifications in Sec. VI.B.4"
 
The way I read this- -

"B. RIFLES
1) HEAVY BENCH RIFLE Any rifle having a barrel 18 or more inches long, measuring from the face of the bolt to the muzzle and having a safely operated firing mechanism. Electric triggers are allowed. Unrestricted rests are allowed (See II.H)
2) HEAVY VARMINT RIFLE Any rifle having a safe manually operated firing mechanism, weighing not more than 13 1/2 pounds inclusive of sight, with a stock having a flat or convex forearm and total stock width not more than 3", having a toe formed by a straight line drawn from the toe of a substantially vertical butt with a 13 1/4 inch pull starting at a point at least 4 inches below the axis of the bore and extending forward to the centerline of the barrel at a point no more than 18 inches forward of the boltface, a barrel not less than 18 inches long, a diameter at and not more than 5 inches ahead of the boltface of not more than 1.250 inches and a diameter at any point between the muzzle and 5 inches in front of the boltface not greater than would be defined by a straight taper between such point 5 inches in front of the boltface at 1.250 inches diameter and the muzzle at .9 inch diameter at 29 inches. The barrel may be attached to the receiver, bedding blocks or sleeve or combination thereof for a distance of no more than four (4) inches, measured from the face of the bolt. The overall length of the receiver, bedding block or sleeve or combination thereof not to exceed 14". (Maximum dimensions shall not include normal scope blocks or sight bases.) Epoxy or equivalent plastic bedding compound without parting compound, of the bottom 180 degree of any portion of the barreled action on Varmint class rifles is permitted. Remington 40XB stocks, as produced, may be used without alteration, provided there exists no interaction between fore-end and sand bag that would constitute a guiding means. Electric triggers are allowed
3) LIGHT VARMINT RIFLE Any rifle of not more than 10 1/2 pounds in weight inclusive of sights and otherwise meeting the requirements of the Heavy Varmint Rifle
4) SPORTER
a. Centerfire: Any rifle otherwise meeting the requirements of the Light Varmint Rifle, but of not less than caliber .230"
b. Rimfire: Any rifle conforming to the specifications in Sec. VI.B.4"

Considering the "forearm" has nothing to do with bedding, the action or hanging the action & barrel in a stock in any way, it's a different animal totally.
Is this an obvious observation ?
 
Actually, this question wasn't about Gene's stock at all, but simply what I think is an oversight in the most recent publication of the NBRSA rules. As I posted in another thread, I think that this rule was written with one piece stocks in mind, which Gene's, obviously, is not.
 
Boyd

Your concern was on both my list and Don Nielson's list to research before the board meeting. Clearly we dropped the ball and didn't bother to look back. If everyone will try to resist building a rifle based on the potential omission I'll make another effort to remedy the problem.
 
Just what is the definition of a "barrel block" as it pretains to Rifles used in NBRSA Competition??.......jackie.

I think the term as used is "bedding block"..... which is intuitively obvious to the most casual of firearms enthusiasts.






A poor stab at humor there...
 
Wilbur

Call it what you like, but I will ask again.

What is the definition of a barrel block, or bedding block, as it pretains to Rifles used in NBRSA Competition??.

And, I might as well ask. What is the definition of a "stock"......jackie
 
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Stock, bedding, and barrel blocks defined

This is just a starting point. Work it over, and make it better. Opinions?


For purposes of definition for the NBRSA rules, a stock is that part of a rifle that is designed to make contact with the front and rear sand bags, as well as the shooter’s shoulder and hand(s) for the purpose of positioning and limiting the recoil of the rifle, when it is fired. Although generally of one piece construction, a stock may be made of any number of pieces so long as the rifle does not conflict with the rules that govern stock shape.

A bedding block is a structural component of a one-piece stock that contains the interface between the action and the stock as well as provisions for fastening the action to the stock. It is generally manufactured as a separate item from a stronger material than the stock, and installed into a fitted recess in the stock either by mechanical fastening, or by adhesive, most commonly the latter.

A barrel block is similar to a bedding block but is generally fitted to the stock in front of the action and as provision in its design to clamp or otherwise contain the rearmost part of the barrel, providing the main point of attachment for the barreled action to the stock.
 
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In the context of the question..

Any attempt to answer would raise more questions of the same nature. Frankly, I would rather try to define a "stick" than a "stock".

On second thought:

Ice Hockey Rules......

Rule 10 - Sticks

10.1 Player’s Stick - The sticks shall be made of wood or other material approved by the League, and must not have any projections. Adhesive tape of any color may be wrapped around the stick at any place for the purpose of reinforcement or to improve control of the puck. (what's a projection?)

No stick shall exceed sixty-three inches (63") in length from the heel to the end of the shaft nor more than twelve and one-half inches (121/2") from the heel to the end of the blade.

Requests for an exception to the length of the shaft (only) may be submitted in writing to and must be approved by the League’s Hockey Operations Department prior to any such stick being approved for use. Maximum length of a stick granted an exception under this rule is sixty-five inches (65”).

The blade of the stick shall not be more than three inches (3") in width at any point between the heel and ½” in from the mid-point of the tip of the blade, nor less than two inches (2"). All edges of the blade shall be beveled (see 9.6). The curvature of the blade of the stick shall be restricted in such a way that the distance of a perpendicular line measured from a straight line drawn from any point at the heel to the end of the blade to the point of maximum curvature shall not exceed three-quarters of an inch (3/4"). (which way is the width?)

10.2 Goalkeeper’s Stick - In the case of a goalkeeper’s stick, there shall be a knob of white tape or some other protective material approved by the League. This knob must not be less than one-half inch (1/2'') thick at the top of the shaft.

Failure to comply with this provision of the rule will result in the goalkeeper’s stick being deemed unfit for play. The goalkeeper’s stick must be changed without the application of a minor penalty.

The blade of the goalkeeper’s stick shall not exceed three and one-half inches (31/2'') in width at any point except at the heel, where it must not exceed four and one-half inches (41/2'') in width; nor shall the goalkeeper’s stick exceed fifteen and one-half inches (151/2'') in length from the heel to the end of the blade.

There is to be no measurement of any of the dimensions of the goalkeeper’s stick during the course of the game. The League’s Hockey Operations Department is specifically authorized to make a check of all goalkeepers’ sticks to ensure the compliance with the rule. It shall report its findings to the Commissioner for his disciplinary action (see 11.8).

The widened portion of the goalkeeper’s stick extending up the shaft from the blade shall not extend more than twenty-six inches (26'') from the heel and shall not exceed three and one-half inches (31/2'') in width.


10.3 Broken Stick – Player - A broken stick is one which, in the opinion of the Referee, is unfit for normal play. (there it is!)

A player without a stick may participate in the game. A player whose stick is broken may participate in the game provided he drops the broken stick. A minor penalty shall be imposed for an infraction of this rule.

A player who has lost or broken his stick may only receive a stick at his own players’ bench or be handed one from a teammate on the ice. A player may not participate in the play using a goalkeeper’s stick. A minor penalty shall be imposed for an infraction of this rule.

A player tendered a stick thrown on the ice from the players’ or penalty bench will not receive a penalty. However, the person responsible for throwing the stick will receive a bench minorpenalty.

10.4 Broken Stick – Goalkeeper - A goalkeeper may continue to play with a broken stick until a stoppage of play or until he has one legally handed to him by a teammate. The teammate must hand the stick to him. He cannot throw it or slide it to the goalkeeper (this includes situations where the goalkeeper has lost his stick and a teammate is trying to return it to him). For a violation of this rule, a minor penalty for throwing the stick shall be assessed to the offending player (no penalty to the goalkeeper for receiving the stick).

A goalkeeper whose stick is broken or illegal may not go to the players’ bench for a replacement but must receive his stick from a teammate. A goalkeeper may participate in the play using a player’s stick until such time as he is legally provided with a replacement goalkeeper’s stick.

For an infraction of this rule, a minor penalty shall be imposed on the goalkeeper.

10.5 Stick Measurement - A request for a stick measurement shall be limited to one request per team during the course of any stoppage in play.

When a formal complaint is made by the Captain or Alternate Captain of a team, against the dimensions of any stickof an opponent, that opponent must be on the ice at the time the request is made to the Referee. Once the request is made, and as long as the Officials maintain visual contact with the stick, it can be measured. This means that if the player whose stick is about to be measured steps off the ice onto his players’ bench, his stick may still be measured provided the request was received prior to him leaving the ice surface and the stick remains in the view of at least one of the on-ice Officials.

The Referee shall take the stick to the penalty bench where the necessary measurement shall be made immediately. Players on both teams shall retire to their respective benches. To measure the curvature of the blade of the stick, the Referee must draw an imaginary line along the outside of the shaft to the bottom of the blade and then along the bottom of the blade - this will determine the location of the heel. Using a League-approved measuring gauge, the Referee shall secure the gauge at the heel of the stick and measure the curvature of the blade from the heel to any point along the toe of the blade. To measure any other dimension of the stick, the Referee shall use a measuring tape.

The result shall be reported to the Penalty Timekeeper, who shall record it on the back of the Penalty Record form. The Referee will convey the result of the measurement to Captain or Alternate Captain of the player whose stick was measured. If the stick proves to be illegal, the stick shall remain at the penalty bench until the end of the game.

A player whose stick has been measured and it is found not to conform to the provisions of this rule shall be assessed a minor penalty and a fine of two hundred dollars ($200). For a second offense in the same season, the player shall (in addition to the minor penalty) be fined one thousand dollars ($1000). For a third offense in the same season, the player shall (in addition to the minor penalty) be assessed a game misconduct and an automatic one game suspension. For all additional violations in the same season, the automatic suspension to the player shall (in addition to the minor penalty and game misconduct assessed during the game) double for each subsequent violation of this rule (i.e. first suspension - one game, second suspension - two games, third suspension – four games etc.)

If the complaint is not sustained, a bench minor penalty shall be imposed against the complaining Club in addition to a fine of one hundred dollars ($100).

A player who participates in the play, who checks or who intentionally prevents the movement of an opponent, or who intentionally plays the puck while carrying two sticks (including while taking a replacement stick to his goalkeeper) shall incur a minor penalty under this rule but the automatic fine of two hundred dollars ($200) shall not be imposed. If his participation causes a foul resulting in a penalty, the Referee shall report the incident to the Commissioner for disciplinary action.

A request for a stick measurement in regular playing time is permitted, including after the scoring of a goal, however, a goal cannot be disallowed as a result of the measurement. A request for a stick measurement following a goal in overtime (including one scored on a penalty shot in overtime) is not permitted. Stick measurements prior to or during the shootout are permitted, subject to the guidelines outlined in 10.7.

Any player or goalkeeper who deliberately breaks his stick or who refuses to surrender his stick for measurement when requested to do so by the Referee shall be assessed a minor penalty plus a ten-minute (10) misconduct. In addition, this player or goalkeeper shall be subject to a two hundred dollar ($200) fine. (Define deliberate)

If, after a player’s stick has been ruled illegal, he attempts to take a penalty shot with a second stick that is also ruled illegal prior to taking the penalty shot, the opportunity to take the penalty shot shall be disallowed. The player shall be assessed one minor penalty for the first illegal stick.

10.6 Stick Measurement – Prior to Penalty Shot – A stick measurement request may be made prior to a penalty shot following the guidelines below:

First Stick

If the stick is “legal” the complaining Club is assessed a bench minor penalty, a player is placed in the penalty box immediately. Regardless as to the result of the penalty shot, the bench minor penalty is assessed and served.

If the stick is “illegal” the player will be assessed a minor penalty. He will be ordered to obtain a new (second) stick prior to the penalty shot. After he takes the shot he will be required to serve his penalty.

Second stick

The player will be told that the second stick will be measured prior to the penalty shot to verify the legality of the stick.

If the second stick is “legal”, proceed with the penalty shot.

If second stick is “illegal”, disallow the opportunity for the penalty shot and assess one minor penalty for the first illegal stick.

If the player refuses to surrender his stick for measurement prior to the penalty shot, the penalty shot shall not be permitted and the player shall be assessed a misconduct penalty.

10.7 Stick Measurement – Prior to Shootout Attempt – A stick measurement request must be made prior to the Referee blowing his whistle to begin the shootout attempt.

If the stick is “legal” the complaining Club forfeits their next shootout attempt. In addition, the complaining Club’s Coach shall be fined one thousand dollars ($1000) and the Club shall be fined five thousand dollars ($5000). Should this occur during the first set of three shooters, the next shooter listed becomes ineligible to shoot until such time as all eligible players have participated in the shootout. Their next shootout attempt would be recorded as “no goal”.

If the stick is “illegal”, the offending team forfeits that shootout attempt by that player, and the player becomes ineligible to participate in the shootout. In addition, the player is fined one thousand dollars ($1000) and his Club is fined five thousand dollars ($5000). This shootout attempt would be recorded as “no goal”.

Stick measurement violations during the shootout shall not be subject to the fines and suspensions outlined in 10.5.
 
(expletive), I thought I put up long posts:D Ignoring the rule book issue for the moment, how do you like my definitions?
 
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Sounds like everyone wants to overcomplicate or avoid a simple question.

Q: What is not the barreled action and rides in the bags?
A: The stock (1, 2 or 300 pieces does not matter)
Q: Are “all” the stock attachment points/methods within the rules?

Q part 2: Is part of a match directors job contesting things that are obviously outside of the rules so small isolated problems don’t become huge widespread problems?

As long as we’re on the topic.
I know someone with a 17” barrel, is it ok if he glues a soda straw to the end and calls it a tuner to get past inspection? If not, can any of you "more creative than most" guys think of anyway he can get around the barrel length rule? Its his best shooting barrel and he’d really like to shoot it in a registered match.

TIA
 
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