Roger Avery & Johnny Loric Shoot 25X in NC State Match

Roger

Originally the rule book said stationary backers for all aggregates--but there were some score clubs that had a single yardage and no room at all for backers--so a modification was made to the rule to allow those clubs to run registered matches with the intent that someday the club could remedy the situation.

I recently witnessed at one of those clubs a very sad event--a gentleman had 19 x going into match 5. On match 5 he was shooting round his target and when he got to bull #5--there was already a shot there outside of the scoring rings--he had to eat that 0 as there were no stationary backers---no one on that relay would own up to having shot that stray shot. Very sad-but true. The stationary backers are more there to protect you the shooter than to penalize someone--

Piedmont has a landscape situation that has prevented them to provide stationary backers up top this point--I know there are plans in place to do it prior to next year. Jeff Ferguson tried his darndest to get an exception made for this last match--however, the rulebook provides no means for Score Committee or Board to over-ride a clearly written rule.

Jim Borden
 
Bologna - - -

FBecigneul said:
Rules are rules.

"The stationary backers are more there to protect you the shooter than to penalize someone--"

The backers are there to protect you from crossfires but if there are no crossfires then what? No one claimed or called crossfire and the honest shooter was penalized. The ruling is bologna if there are no crossfires.

Again, I understand the rules........when they suit me.
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I guess one could safely say that all rules are bologna until they need to be used, Aye?
 
During Vermont's State Championship this past month, a shooter could not explain a shot that was in the last ring out, thinking someone had cross fired without owning up to it. It turned out the the backer matched perfectly to his own bench. It was an errant shoot from his bench. In my opinion this person is a very honorable man who would not have cheated for the world and without backers we probably would have given him the X that he later shot after reporting the "crossfire". I don't remember all the timelines but I think he was near leading if not leading at the time. Had we given him the X, someone else would have missed out on an award. Backers protect everyone. Randy J.
 
Give him the record

I know that won't happen. If his score is confirmed and there was no crossfires I would give Roger the record. You say no because a rule was broken (no backers). I have seen rules broken at big matches right in the heart of IBS score country and nothing was said or done about it and no one was penalized. I know we need rules, but lets not overlook some and stick by others. Jackie
 
In my opinion this person is a very honorable man who would not have cheated for the world and without backers we probably would have given him the X that he later shot after reporting the "crossfire".
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Randy,

Why would you have given him an X? Nobody admitted to the crossfire, and he had two shots on one target, so why wouldn't he have received the lowest score?
 
Can of Worm's

I guess I'll open this can of worm's.My question is this, If this was a registered IBS match(State Championship)were points awarded towards shooter of the year? If so, How can points be awarded without backers and a potential record not! I'm with Jackie on this one, give him the record.It's not like he beat the record by one x but four x's!
 
My .02 is give him the record. never was a man more deserving than Roger Avery..... last year this same rule cost me SSOY points at this same match and you'll notice my name not on the shooter list this year. If a club wants shooters to support them ,they should support shooters in return by giving them opportunities to break records, it's not like there is any payback at this game.

Congratulations Roger, Johnny and all who shot so well


Danny Hensley
 
blasphemous

Jackie Stogsdil said:
I know that won't happen. If his score is confirmed and there was no crossfires I would give Roger the record. You say no because a rule was broken (no backers). I have seen rules broken at big matches right in the heart of IBS score country and nothing was said or done about it and no one was penalized. I know we need rules, but lets not overlook some and stick by others. Jackie
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Jackie now come on. You know the rules apply to some of us and not to others. :cool: But that depends on who you are and where you are....:eek:.

Are the backers worthwhile???? At the "Bud" this year there was a cross fire that no one was owning up to so the range officer called for the backers to be pulled. The person responsible made a hasty confessional and the situation was resolved.

Roger and Johnny great shooting guys.
 
Question

What do you do in a single yardage match where backers are not required when there is a crossfire and no one owns up to it? Jackie
 
No Backers

If an extra shot appears on a target and no one owns up to it---the the shooter who owns the target owns the shot--period.

the NC shoot was not registered as a grand agg shoot because there were no backers.

Larry Feusse shot a 250 2r5X at Harrison a couple of weeks ago at an unregistered shoot--if he has enough wipeouts--should he be awarded a record as well in good spirit?
 
A simple solution

Submit a petition with 25 names of those who agree, calling for the elimination of backers in score shooting. Determine crossfires by Oath or some other method of choice. Or, submit a petition calling for backers at all registered score shoots. Be able to see if a competitor shot too many or if one of their neighbors helped them out a bit. We can make this as complicated or easy as we want.
 
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Joe,

Joe Pellegrene said:
Randy,

Why would you have given him an X? Nobody admitted to the crossfire, and he had two shots on one target, so why wouldn't he have received the lowest score?
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the point is, if there had been no backers and the shooter claimed a cross fire and IT WAS as crossfire, he would still have eaten the lower score on the double shot bullseye. The backers protect you when you are, in fact, cross fired on and no one owns up to it. In this case the backers confirmed to the shooter that he shot the target twice. At least the shooter knows where the fault lies and doesn't leave the match still convinced someone else ruined his day. --Greg
 
Greg, Isn't it a little scary that the shot came from his bench and he didn't know it? (I don't know nor do I have any desire to know who it was)

-D-:)
 
Dave..

Dave Short said:
Greg, Isn't it a little scary that the shot came from his bench and he didn't know it? (I don't know nor do I have any desire to know who it was)

-D-:)
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in the heat of battle, I guess sometimes things get scrambled. I can remember once leaving the line thinking I had shot a 50-5 and had left a bull blank...40-4.
 
Simple truth is...

when we expanded the range to 16 benches we tried to install backers to comply with the rule. After spending much money to move the backstop at 200 yards back enough to get the backers installed, I soon realized that we had an even bigger problem at 100 yards due to the lay of the land. This problem was realized about 2 weeks before the start of the 2008 season, we simply did not have enough time, and for that matter, money, to get this situation corrected. Tommy Williams contacted Dick Grosbier and had our matches listed for this season as "non agg. matches".

As Jim said earlier, I sent a letter to the IBS Score Committee and ask them to consider giving PGC a waver of the current rule so we could contest the agg. at the state shoot. Gary Long got back to me about five weeks later and informed me that the score committee discussed my request, and came to the conclusion that they did not have the power to grant PGC a waver.

I accepted the committee's ruling and we moved on. I regret that Roger will not be recognized by the IBS as having set a new record, but as far as I am concerned, and I think the majority of shooters are concerned, Roger did in fact break the record.

I am in full agreement that rules are rules, and as long as all clubs are abiding by them there should not be a problem. Having said that let me say this. For many years Piedmont contested the agg. during the state match at our club. We have never had backers. Many of you have shot these matches over the years, including current score committee members who walked away with agg. wins. Only for the last two years have we not contest the agg. after it was pointed out that we could not, because of the lack of backers.

The rules state that the backers should be not less than 36" behind the 100 targets, and 72" behind the 200 yard targets. Does all the clubs that contest the agg. comply with this rule? Have the nationals ever been shot on a range did not comply with this rule?

In closing let me say that Piedmont will be working very hard to try and have backers installed before we start the 2009 season. "Herohank" let me say to you, we do in fact appreciate our shooters at Piedmont. We work hard to keep improving our club, and provide a good place for all to shoot. Every dollar that we take in, both club dues, and match profits, are turned back into the club. If you will E-mail me your address, I will return your match fees for last years match, and I appoligize for the inconvience.

Jeff Ferguson
Pres. PGC
 
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Piedmont

Piedmont is a club that works hard to please the shooters and they endeavor to have the best of facilities. The matches this year were openly advertised that the grand agg would not be registered so all that ventured there knew in advance that the grand aggs were not registered.

Jeff and Tommy did their best to work around the issues and could not make it happen this year.

As for backers---if someone wants to put in an agenda item to eliminate the need--that is great. Then, when someone eats a shot like an individual did at Sulphyr Springs in August, I do not want to hear the crying and whining. There are many that can sit in the background and take potshots--where would all the naysayers about backers have been if someone had planted a stray shot on one of Roger's targets? It would have been--somebody should do something about this--what is wrong with the rules? Why don't the clubs have backers?

There is no rationale to allow a stray shot be be discounted unless it is the first shot out of their rifle on that match and they declare it to the range officer.
 
Let me first say, I knew when going to Piedmont that the Grand was not registered, I went because they run a match that is well run as well as fun to shoot. To shoot well at the match was a bonus. Sure I shot better than the record, another bonus. Do I want a record, not a chance, it wasn't registered. They shot what they could according to the rules and gave us a great match and I thank them for it.
Roger Avery
 
one more time roger proves he's a true gentleman(even if he ain't from the south),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I know just like you do who upped the mark,,,,,,, backers or not,,,,,,,,,,,, now the rest of you pissing and moaning are starting to sound like your running for political office,,,,,,,,, I started this thread and now I pronounce it ended/over/finished/done,,,,,, move on brothers

the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

DD
 
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