Is it possible to use a tuner and tune very tight at 50 and open up at longer distances. Doesnt seem logical to me but I have had people tell me that. I figure you benchrest guys know more about tuners than anything. Just trying to tune a NRL22 gun with CCI green tag. It doesnt need benchrest accuracy but it needs to shoot ragged hole at 50 and under an 1" at 100. A lot of guys have their barrels and actions matched to Eley but that stuff is high dollar and Im curious about the tuners. I have a Harrels AR tuner and also a .22 Benchrest tuner. Ive tuned guns with them and it seems to really help. Just curious on the question that I posed?
Rimfire tuners
- Thread starter Utahtim
- Start date
I understand that but it does make it better for the use I am using it for. My question was about the tuner at different distances. I understand if I want to shoot Competitive benchrest Ill need better quality ammo. Might even need it for what Im doing now. Just hate wasting time if someone knows the answer to my question. Is a tuner only good for one distance
Tuner no tuner. Indoors at 100 yards, per what was told to me by the man who once ran the Lapua test range, to shoot consistent 25mm groups is the exception and not the rule.
Few Rimfire benchrest shooters have the data required to give you a definitive answer regarding 100 yard accuracy.
Few Rimfire benchrest shooters have the data required to give you a definitive answer regarding 100 yard accuracy.
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The Rimfire accuracy guys talk about one brand of ammo shooting better at 100 yds than others while shooting similarly at 50yds.
I don’t know why, maybe bullet design?
Probably similar tuner or not.
The ammo in those discussions are up a couple notches than CCI. There’s ammo less expensive than the high end Eleys like CenterX, Wolf, several SK brands, SK pistol match might be one to try at 100.
I don’t know why, maybe bullet design?
Probably similar tuner or not.
The ammo in those discussions are up a couple notches than CCI. There’s ammo less expensive than the high end Eleys like CenterX, Wolf, several SK brands, SK pistol match might be one to try at 100.
I cannot imagine a tuner is only good for a single distance but you have to remember, the vast majority of rimfire guys on benchrest forums shoot @50, so it is a pretty small knowledge based response pool.
NowI have been told you need a separate tune for 100, don’t know but it sounds plausible.
As the above post stated, I would really consider ammo somewhat better.
Find out for yourself
Take your gun to the range with enough ammo to set a good 100 yard tune and let us know how much it changed from the 50 yard tune.
The picture is of the hundred meter group produced at the Lapua test tunnel three years ago. This is the group the the Lapua fellow commented on. BTW... no tuner.
The Lapua test tunnel gives 50 meter and 100 meter results.
Take your gun to the range with enough ammo to set a good 100 yard tune and let us know how much it changed from the 50 yard tune.
The picture is of the hundred meter group produced at the Lapua test tunnel three years ago. This is the group the the Lapua fellow commented on. BTW... no tuner.
The Lapua test tunnel gives 50 meter and 100 meter results.
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Even the best tuner in the world cannot compensate for crap ammo.
Just find what your barrel likes, purchase a case of it's preferred diet and have fun.
Be prepared to pay for the top shelf stuff, my picky Annie 1411 only likes Tenex but my Izmash Biathlon shoots whatever I feed it and does ok in club competitions.
A tuner should compensate for minor velocity variations but don't expect miracles.
* doggie *
Just find what your barrel likes, purchase a case of it's preferred diet and have fun.
Be prepared to pay for the top shelf stuff, my picky Annie 1411 only likes Tenex but my Izmash Biathlon shoots whatever I feed it and does ok in club competitions.
A tuner should compensate for minor velocity variations but don't expect miracles.
* doggie *
BillBrawand
New member
Some time ago
Back some yrs ago i shot fiochi iot shot at 50 and 100 yrds 5 shot in zs at 50 and ones at 100 yds two of my rifles with hart blls did this consistly IN GOOD CONDITIONS SOME YRS AGO I SENT RON DILL OF VIRGINA SOME PRACTIES TARGETS OVER 2 WK PERIOD THAT WERE UNBELEIVEABLE HE WROTE ARTICLE IN NBRSA NEWS
Back some yrs ago i shot fiochi iot shot at 50 and 100 yrds 5 shot in zs at 50 and ones at 100 yds two of my rifles with hart blls did this consistly IN GOOD CONDITIONS SOME YRS AGO I SENT RON DILL OF VIRGINA SOME PRACTIES TARGETS OVER 2 WK PERIOD THAT WERE UNBELEIVEABLE HE WROTE ARTICLE IN NBRSA NEWS
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I tried a bunch lat night and nothing was really compelling. I worked through the tuner at 50yds and got 5-6 locations that gave me great groups of about 6-8mm and then went back and experimented around that range. This is all with Green tag and a Kidd build in Semi auto. I tried SK, Wolf, Lapua, Eley and a variety of other stuff but nothing was "nock you socks off" Id shot 800-900 rounds so by the time I got to 100 Im sure the gun needed cleaning. Im going to redo it again at 100. I had a Thompson Center that was shooting under an 1" at 100 with ELey but that stuff is High dollar. It needs work though because the chamber is chipped and it does not cycle well with the low velocity stuff.
Just trying to learn a process
Wow! That doesnt seem that good really. Was this a bench gun single shot? I have a Savage MK2 that has shot better groups with Eley than that. I was getting 5-shot groups with
I hope I do this attachment right. This is the best spot on the tuner and a went back and shot the spot as such from left to right
1.-two 5-shot groups at the best tuner setting
2. two five shot groups 1/2 number then 1/2 number to the plus side
3. two five shot groups to the negative side the same and then reshot the best tuner setting and -1/2 number again from the best setting.
That seems to be about as good as I can get with green tag and every other ammo I shot didn't do any better although I did not run it through the tuner. This is a 23" Kidd build and I suspect I am giving some accuracy up to the fact that this is a threaded barrel.
Im going to reshoot the tuner test at 100 with the Green tag and then come back to 50 and check it and see if I can tighten up 100.
Once you clean a barrel well, how many shots can I expect to season the barrel?
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This is like an onion where every few posts we get peeled back new info. What you are looking for is hard enough with a bolt gun....a Built 10/22, you should be thrilled.....threaded barrel, marginal ignition, non BR stock, non match chamber, mediocre trigger, etc., etc., take your pick.
You shot 800-900 rounds without cleaning?
I guess we should also inquire, any time a question like this pops up, the default #1 question, what kind of flags, how many ?
You shot 800-900 rounds without cleaning?
I guess we should also inquire, any time a question like this pops up, the default #1 question, what kind of flags, how many ?
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In defense of the posted groups...
19.68mm converted to inches group is .775”
Lapua measures outside to outside. This adds .224” versus center to center measurement.
Lapua Targets are at 50 meters and 100 meters. This adds almost 10% to the group size vs yards.
These are 10 shot groups. I believe the increase from a 5 shot group to a 10 shot group is somewhere around 20%.
Based on the above Math, if this group was only five shots at 50 yards and was measured CTC....it is .383”
14mm or .55” at Lapua would be considered a Very Good. Fifty meters, ten shot group, OTO.
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Pete Wass
Well-known member
In the Smallbore Silhouette world
I have not seen anyone using multiple lots of ammo. Those stinkin Rams @ 107 yards have to have a pretty small grouping to be able to hit them and I've never seen anyone using two or more lots of ammo over the course. What is done is to find scope settings at each of the 4 distances and record them. While one doesn't need Benchrest accuracy, one still needs pretty dern small groups when using a 3 pound trigger, shooting offhand. No tuners allowed, by the way. The point is, good ammo is good ammo. If it shoot good @ 50 it should shoot good @ 100
Pete
I have not seen anyone using multiple lots of ammo. Those stinkin Rams @ 107 yards have to have a pretty small grouping to be able to hit them and I've never seen anyone using two or more lots of ammo over the course. What is done is to find scope settings at each of the 4 distances and record them. While one doesn't need Benchrest accuracy, one still needs pretty dern small groups when using a 3 pound trigger, shooting offhand. No tuners allowed, by the way. The point is, good ammo is good ammo. If it shoot good @ 50 it should shoot good @ 100
Pete
I've never had any that wasn't either. 100 yds rimfire at LCRC on 1/25. Take the red eye special up and shoot with us!
I am not a traditional Benchrest shooter. If we had that type of match around here I would though. I shoot benchrest silhouette to 200 meters.
I’ve had tuners before. Not a big fan. I have a tuner on one of my rifles presently. The other day I went through I don’t know how many rounds of SK and Wolf and center-x, trying to find that holy grail sweet spot. Never did. The rifle shot the same pretty much no matter where I set it and at either extreme end.
The bottom line: Your rifle either likes what it’s being fed or it doesn’t. As someone already said. A tuner will not turn a pig’s ear into a silk purse. Green tag is garbage. Chrono it and see what you get for SD. That should be all the proof you need. The further out you go, the more important SD becomes. That’s why you need good consistent Ammo. There are lots of cheap Ammo that will turn in tiny groups at 50 meters that are virtually useless out at two hundred because at that point they are printing like shotgun patterns due to velocity variations among other things.
Get yourself a bit better Ammo. SK and Wolf are a good place to start. Last time I checked they weren’t giving green tag away, yet it isn’t much better than most of the bulk stuff you can buy on any shelf. Listen to these guys. They know what they’re talking about. Tuners are basically the last thing you go to for fine tuning after you’ve done everything else. Ammo is the primary place to look for increased accuracy if the gun is up to snuff.
My .02 cents FWIW...
I’ve had tuners before. Not a big fan. I have a tuner on one of my rifles presently. The other day I went through I don’t know how many rounds of SK and Wolf and center-x, trying to find that holy grail sweet spot. Never did. The rifle shot the same pretty much no matter where I set it and at either extreme end.
The bottom line: Your rifle either likes what it’s being fed or it doesn’t. As someone already said. A tuner will not turn a pig’s ear into a silk purse. Green tag is garbage. Chrono it and see what you get for SD. That should be all the proof you need. The further out you go, the more important SD becomes. That’s why you need good consistent Ammo. There are lots of cheap Ammo that will turn in tiny groups at 50 meters that are virtually useless out at two hundred because at that point they are printing like shotgun patterns due to velocity variations among other things.
Get yourself a bit better Ammo. SK and Wolf are a good place to start. Last time I checked they weren’t giving green tag away, yet it isn’t much better than most of the bulk stuff you can buy on any shelf. Listen to these guys. They know what they’re talking about. Tuners are basically the last thing you go to for fine tuning after you’ve done everything else. Ammo is the primary place to look for increased accuracy if the gun is up to snuff.
My .02 cents FWIW...
BillBrawand
New member
Set up at home
set up at my home off hand shillote rimfire at right yds have 100 yd bench my daughter shoots at them with 541 rem with ir 50 gets 18 and sometimes 20