Rimfire Action Lock Times

S

South_Pender

Guest
Is there a chart somewhere giving the lock times of various rimfire actions? I tried a search on this site using 'lock time' as the key words and got nowhere.

Any help would be much appreciated.
 
South_Pender said:
Is there a chart somewhere giving the lock times of various rimfire actions? I tried a search on this site using 'lock time' as the key words and got nowhere.

Any help would be much appreciated.
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Not that I've ever seen, not a huge factor in BR. Basically Ans 54 and Hall are fast, everybody else somewhat slower.
 
Zero Importance in 22RFBR

tim said:
Not that I've ever seen, not a huge factor in BR. Basically Ans 54 and Hall are fast, everybody else somewhat slower.
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I have several Halls and several Anschutz ,in MHO it has absolutely nothing to benefit a faster lock Time in 22RFBR ! Na Na! Position Shooting but not BR !
 
Pete Wass said:
almost anyone here will tell ya that. :rolleyes:

Pete
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Ah but "shooting" is a relative level of success!

Now whether the wide claim of Halls not shooting has merit, I cannot say, but what I can say is I guarantee you 100% of the BR actions, Halls included, can be made to outshoot my off hand shooting. I'm just waiting on someone to really think lowly of their Hall so I can pay pennies on the dollar. ;)
 
"to really think lowly of their Hall so I can pay pennies on the dollar."

I don't think unkindly of the Hall rifles in my rack. They are surely worth pennies on the dollar. 80-85 pennies is reasonable. bob
 
bob finger said:
"to really think lowly of their Hall so I can pay pennies on the dollar."

I don't think unkindly of the Hall rifles in my rack. They are surely worth pennies on the dollar. 80-85 pennies is reasonable. bob
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I didn't really mean to imply that anyone should think poorly of their Halls. I've just seen some general discontent with that particular action and the equipment lists seem to reflect it. I personally would be tickled pink with one.
 
If you are after a silhouette because of lock time then the Suhl would be your best bet, they are cheap to purchase and if they are stock they are ready to shoot, and I think someone did a lock time test and they were the fastest and I believe you can get into a Suhl much cheaper than a Hall.I saw someone with one at the crawfish earlier this year it was a grade 10 stock but it was in a BR stock for 650.00, that was a deal.The guy said he had shot several good targets with it as well so it was a shooter.
MC
 
MilGunsmith said:
Rem 540x was known to have a faster lock time than the Rem 40x.
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Right. I read that the Rem. 540 has a lock time of 1.4 ms., which is very fast. According to another source, the British Paramount action has a lock time of 1.3 ms., which has been described as the fastest of any production action.

And, Tim, as you say, the Anschutz M54 action has a very fast lock time. I read that, depending on the model series (1400, 1800, 2000, where some adjustments were made along the way), the lock times were between 2.3 ms. (1400 series) and 1.5 ms. (2000 series). I've seen 1.7 ms. for Anschutz M54 as well--probably what you see in the 1700 and 1800 series. As you and Slick Willy say, this is not an important factor in rimfire BR, but could be in position and silo shooting.

Are there any Win. 52 shooters here? I'd be interested in knowing what Winchester was able to get the lock time down to in their speedlock versions.
 
MIKECAMERON said:
If you are after a silhouette because of lock time then the Suhl would be your best bet, they are cheap to purchase and if they are stock they are ready to shoot, and I think someone did a lock time test and they were the fastest and I believe you can get into a Suhl much cheaper than a Hall.I saw someone with one at the crawfish earlier this year it was a grade 10 stock but it was in a BR stock for 650.00, that was a deal.The guy said he had shot several good targets with it as well so it was a shooter.
MC
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Oh wow! I've always had my eye out for a Suhl for Silhouette. I know they are great shooters even with factory barrels and come with a fantastic trigger. I've just never seen a deal like that! I would have snatched it up right then.

In the mean time, I'm shooting my 541-T sporter in hunter and for standard class having a 541-T heavy barrel reworked by Brian Voelker when he starts taking work again in January. I need another standard class rifle and a Suhl would be great.
 
South_Pender said:
Right. I read that the Rem. 540 has a lock time of 1.4 ms., which is very fast. According to another source, the British Paramount action has a lock time of 1.3 ms., which has been described as the fastest of any production action.

And, Tim, as you say, the Anschutz M54 action has a very fast lock time. I read that, depending on the model series (1400, 1800, 2000, where some adjustments were made along the way), the lock times were between 2.3 ms. (1400 series) and 1.5 ms. (2000 series). I've seen 1.7 ms. for Anschutz M54 as well--probably what you see in the 1700 and 1800 series. As you and Slick Willy say, this is not an important factor in rimfire BR, but could be in position and silo shooting.

Are there any Win. 52 shooters here? I'd be interested in knowing what Winchester was able to get the lock time down to in their speedlock versions.
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The document I have from the Winchester Ballistic's lab showed a 52C total lock time of 2.1 and a firing pin travel time of 1.7. As a side note, they also tested a Remington 37, it was 2.1 and 1.8 respectively.
Steve
 
seewin said:
The document I have from the Winchester Ballistic's lab showed a 52C total lock time of 2.1 and a firing pin travel time of 1.7. As a side note, they also tested a Remington 37, it was 2.1 and 1.8 respectively.
Steve
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Steve, that's terrific information. Thanks for providing it. If the firing-pin travel time is 1.7, wouldn't that be the same as how we normally define lock time? I'm guessing that the 2.1 ms. includes what we might call "trigger time," or the time from trigger release to sear release, which would involve tripping of the levers with attendant friction factors.
 
Hall won't Shoot???

My Hall (Corvette SCG) has has won or placed at the top of about everything it has shot in over the last 8 years. To me it's the gunsmith's ability, then the barrel that makes the difference. I placed in the top 10 at the Triple Crown and won two targets (10.5# and 13.5# and Two Gun) shooting my Hall this year and it seems to just be getting better. I put it down for a season or two then had Wayne Smith rework it from the ground up for this year and took pot luck on a Lot of ammo which is fast (1071 fps). The Hall is better than the shooter, several shooters have shot it and done real well with it too.

By the way I have a friend with one or two Grade 10 Suhl's he wants to sell. Let me know back and I'll get you two together.
Bob Collins
 
Bob Collins said:
My Hall (Corvette SCG) has has won or placed at the top of about everything it has shot in over the last 8 years. To me it's the gunsmith's ability, then the barrel that makes the difference. I placed in the top 10 at the Triple Crown and won two targets (10.5# and 13.5# and Two Gun) shooting my Hall this year and it seems to just be getting better. I put it down for a season or two then had Wayne Smith rework it from the ground up for this year and took pot luck on a Lot of ammo which is fast (1071 fps). The Hall is better than the shooter, several shooters have shot it and done real well with it too.

By the way I have a friend with one or two Grade 10 Suhl's he wants to sell. Let me know back and I'll get you two together.
Bob Collins
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By no means did I mean to insult or put down the Hall action. I have no experience with it nor do I have any reason to think that it can't make an excellent rifle. Earlier this year there was a decent amount of talk about the "flaws" of the Hall action and why it wasn't used more often. I was at the Triple Crown and was far, far (faaaarrrr) from the Top 10. I wouldn't have any ground to stand on if I ever decided to speak down on equipment or shooters! :p

That could very well pique my interest! Keep me posted!
 
Ignition

Doodaddy,
There is a lot of discussion on firing pins, weight, spring location, and lock time. The one thing to understand is the chemical nature of primer compounds and how they work. I explained this years ago to several action builders. Rim Fire primer works like striking a match on the side of the matchbox. I know you seen fellows who could strike a match with one hand holding the box in that hand and make it look simple. Too slow and it will never ignite too fast can cause problems too – like breaking the matchstick. What we want is consistency; we have to have the same motion each and every time for that consistency. The main reason I like my Hall is the ease of cleaning the firing pin inside the bolt. No disassembling and nowhere of the powder and primer residue to cake up and “change the lock time” which changes ignition, which changes the gun tune, which makes those little bullets go everywhere you don’t want them to go.
There are good gunsmiths that can get the most out of any action; mine has all of the “tricks” done to it we could figure out, several Allen Hall doesn’t know about and several he says doesn’t matter, but it works. I showed two shooters a trick for Anschutz 54’s that immediately pulled their Sporter scores up last August, all to do with a consistent firing pin hit. Consistency and a good gunsmith working with what he knows and understands is the key.
Ex – don’t get a Chevy man to fix a Ford. If a gunsmith doesn’t like or know an action don’t force him to work on it.
Bob Collins
Hope this helps, I think you will make it to the top. Learn as you go.
It took about 15 hours for this to load - must be a problem somewhere.


Doodaddy said:
By no means did I mean to insult or put down the Hall action. I have no experience with it nor do I have any reason to think that it can't make an excellent rifle. Earlier this year there was a decent amount of talk about the "flaws" of the Hall action and why it wasn't used more often. I was at the Triple Crown and was far, far (faaaarrrr) from the Top 10. I wouldn't have any ground to stand on if I ever decided to speak down on equipment or shooters! :p

That could very well pique my interest! Keep me posted!
Click to expand...
 
Thank you once again Bob for explaining that. It's something that's important to know in order to understand the process, but something very few are willing to share, probably cause they don't know as much as they'd like to admit.

Your Yankee friend,

Dave Shattuck
 
Bob Collins said:
Doodaddy,
There is a lot of discussion on firing pins, weight, spring location, and lock time. The one thing to understand is the chemical nature of primer compounds and how they work. I explained this years ago to several action builders. Rim Fire primer works like striking a match on the side of the matchbox. I know you seen fellows who could strike a match with one hand holding the box in that hand and make it look simple. Too slow and it will never ignite too fast can cause problems too – like breaking the matchstick. What we want is consistency; we have to have the same motion each and every time for that consistency. The main reason I like my Hall is the ease of cleaning the firing pin inside the bolt. No disassembling and nowhere of the powder and primer residue to cake up and “change the lock time” which changes ignition, which changes the gun tune, which makes those little bullets go everywhere you don’t want them to go.
There are good gunsmiths that can get the most out of any action; mine has all of the “tricks” done to it we could figure out, several Allen Hall doesn’t know about and several he says doesn’t matter, but it works. I showed two shooters a trick for Anschutz 54’s that immediately pulled their Sporter scores up last August, all to do with a consistent firing pin hit. Consistency and a good gunsmith working with what he knows and understands is the key.
Ex – don’t get a Chevy man to fix a Ford. If a gunsmith doesn’t like or know an action don’t force him to work on it.
Bob Collins
Hope this helps, I think you will make it to the top. Learn as you go.
It took about 15 hours for this to load - must be a problem somewhere.
Click to expand...

I believe I've read the match strike comparison somewhere before. I'm sure they were your words and it makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know which or if any "tricks" have been made to my 40X. The metal as is when I bought it and the previous owner didn't know much about it. Some days I think it's better than I am and some days I'm not so sure. I've never behind another benchrest rifle so I have no point of comparison either.

You're definitely making sense to me.
 
I've heard the "match strike" analogy from Allan Hall more often than I care to admit. He appears to be a believer. bob
 
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