Rifle Woes

Mr. Beggs,

No offense taken. I've always thought you to be one of the most knowledgeable about rifle accuracy on this forum, as well as one of the classiest posters around. I pay attention when you speak.

And maybe you're right about expecting too much from this rifle. But, I've been an accuracy type since the early 90's, and have played with a few rifles, particularly "tactical" type 308's during my high speed-low drag SWAT days, and I just think this rifle wants to shoot better than it currently does.

I don't think it's the ammo. I've shot a pile of Federal Gold Medal match down the tubes of several rifles and, given a solid gun, it will shoot well. Same thing with Hornady TAP. In fact, I spoke with the chaps at the FBI firearms lab one day and they said that the TAP ammo was the most accurate factory ammo they have ever tested. Say what you will about the Bureau, but they have the wherewithal and the budget to do meaningful accuracy testing, and the cat I talked to knew his sh!t. He was an accuracy wacko like the rest of us (plus he liked side-by-side shotguns...that's always worth credibility points in my book).

I still have concerns about the ignition system...particularly the lightened firing pin. But as nobody has commented on my light firing pin hypothesis, I'm wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I did find something else of note today, though. I had the rifle out of the stock and noted a HUGE burr around the front action screw hole, and a smaller burr around the rear one. The burr on the front action screw hole was big enough that it was deforming the aluminum pillar in the stock. A couple of minutes with a needle file and a stone took care of the burrs, and the bedding checked OK afterwards. Why I didn't notice the burr prior...it could be seen from outer space...I don't know. Probably because I assumed somebody at the factory would have bit more pride in their work and wouldn't leave a burr big enough to draw blood. If nothing else, this rifle has taught me to take NOTHING for granted when dealing with a factory, mass produced action, which is a good lesson learned.

Justin
 
Justin, I've been following your thread with interest as I have been there. I think I can help.
I have been a short-range benchrester for over thirty years with a reasonable degree of success.
What you are experiencing with your Rem 700 308 is very common with accuracy minded shooters that are expecting too much from their equipment. If you are getting 3 in 2 out, and 4 in one out with an occasional .7 moa flier, you may not realize it but you are getting excellent accuracy with your equipment. In order to improve on that, you will have to move on up to all out benchrest equipment to include;

1. Custom built benchrest rifle chambered in a BR cartridge.
2. Benchrest quality front rest and rear bag.
3. 36 or greater power target scope with appropriate reticle. ( I prefer 1/16 dot)
4. Benchrest quality and proven custom made bullets. (Bart's are hard to beat; so are Berger)
5. And the list goes on and on forever,,,

What you need now is a very experienced and knowledgeable mentor and CA has quite a number of those. Take a drive over to Phoenix and attend one of their BR matches at Ben Avery. Get acquainted with them and ask a lot of questions. They will be glad to help you.

Move on up to short range BR. You won't believe what you will learn in the first year. Keep and enjoy that fine Rem 700 sporting rifle but in order to obtain the accuracy you really want; take up real BR.

Sincerely,

Gene Beggs
Odessa, TX 79762[/QUOT

Gene that is a very good and true statement Post.
Chet
 
Is this a repeater? I’d double check that the trigger housing isn’t hitting the trigger guard and if a repeater the mag box floats a tad. I’ve run into that issue occasionally.
 
Gents,

I just completed a build for a friend, and the confounded thing will not shoot! While I haven't built a lot of rifles, the ones prior to this have all shot well right out of the gate. I have worked with numerous sick rifles and with the exception of one, have made them all shoot better. But this one has got me scratching my bald-ass head.

I keep getting weird, 3&2, or 4&1 groups, the separation between the two is always vertical, and the first shot is usually out and off call (hot or cold barrel). I have yet to get a "flat" group. Typically, this points to a bedding issue, but the bedding on this rifle, checked using the dial indicator method, shows about a half-thou of movement, if that. That's pretty good...and quite remarkable given all the garbage that is on the bottom of a SS 700 action these days. I've seen rifles with far more movement shoot far better than this one. I thought I had it licked when I discovered the stock was contacting the barrel during recoil. I relieved the barrel channel a bit, Prussian blued the barrel, put it back together and shot it. No more barrel/stock contact, but the same group pattern remained (the barrel is completely free-floated). Different torque settings for the action screws? Nope...not it. I tried another stock, this one was not glass bedded (aluminum bedding block), and when checked with the indicator, it showed about .003-.004 movement. What the hell...I took it out and shot it. Same type of groups. I have tried 3 different scopes, and a different set of rings. No dice.

To rule out operator error, I shot my personal .308 during one of the range sessions, and had no problems shooting respectable groups.

Ammo was factory 308 Hornady TAP 168 grain, and Federal Gold Medal Match, 168 grain BTHP, both of which, especially the Hornady, have shot well in every prior 308 I've ever messed with.

The rifle was chambered in my Emco Super 11 lathe, using the through the headstock method with wire rings betwixt the chuck jaws and barrel. The outboard end spider has swivel-tip screws to hold the barrel. I indicated directly of the lands with an Interapid with a long stylus to around a tenth, pre-bored, and chambered using Vipers Venom. After each operation...threading, chambering, etc., I re-checked the both ends of the barrel with the indicator (thank you, Jackie). Nothing moved. When done, the chamber had about .00015 of run out. Reamer holder was a Bald Eagle using the pusher method. Visual inspection with my borescope checked-out, everything looking concentric and true. The throat was given a brief short-stroking with a bit of lapping compound on a patch to knock off the sharp edges and burrs caused by the reamer. The crown was my typical recessed, cut 90 degrees to the bore, with a 45 degree chamfer cut on the very end, and checked with a Q-tip. Crowning was done with a crown-specific, honed, HSS tool that I have used in the past, and was put at a tight spot felt when I slugged the barrel.

The screws don't touch the insides of the pillars, the scope base screws don't touch the barrel tenon. Firing pin fall is around .260, with about .030 sear handoff. Firing pin protrusion is .054. Firing spring has not been checked. Rings and bases are torqued to specs. The only thing that I can think of that I haven't done is bed the bases, and lap the rings, both of which I intend to do. I'd be surprised if this was the culprit, though, as I have seen many a rifle (field rifle) shoot well without these steps being done, but you never know. Clearances between bolt and barrel are good. I've checked everything I can think of to check...twice. This rifle is handing me my arse. I miss my longbows...

Having never had a bad/problem barrel, when do you start looking at it as a suspect?

The particulars for the rifle are as follows:

Remington 700 SS (brand new), trued, PT&G bolt handle welded-up by Dan of Accu-Tig
Krieger 4 groove, 1-10, twist, 30 caliber, Remington Sendero contour
Trigger Tech trigger
Mc3 stock, bedded in Marine Tex
Chambered in .308 Winchester with a brand new PT&G SAMMI spec, live pilot reamer.
Warne picatinny bases, Seekins rings.

So...what say you, gentlemen? Where do I go from here? What have I missed? What do you recommend I do next? I've tried to cover all the particulars and my doings, to help give you guys the total picture, but may have forgot something. If I have, please ask.

SOS

Justin
checks your spacer betweem barrel and action dont let the squar touch i put puddy under neath and take it out when i am done beding
 
not knowing how much you might have cut off the muzzle end. I would go ahead and check if it was enough using guage pins. Something similar once happened to myself and it ended up still being a bit oversized at the muzzle / belled.
check recoil lug keep nothiong under it if beded good it should shoot well bill b
 
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