Remington clearance questions.............

ultramagmed

ultramagmed

JKM
First off, before I get to the clearance questions. I have been working on a Remington 700. I have trued the action and sleeved the bolt, squared the bolt face, trued the lugs and abutments and was wondering if the rivet less extractors will work in the older riveted type bolts.

Now for the clearance issues.

1) Is .005 clearance enough bolt nose to counter bore end clearance?

2) Is .005 clearance (.005 each side .010 total) enough bolt nose to counter bore side clearance?

3) What clearance should I shoot for from the front of the bolt locking lugs to the barrel face?

I have logged all the dimensions from before I started this project and would like to know how tight I dare run these clearances to get the most out of my efforts. All opinions appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Med.
 
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I think the extractor recess is machined differently between riveted and non riveted extractors.

I would go for no less than 5 thou clearance and no more than 10 thou clearance. When the barrel is on tight - a stripped bolt should fall freely closed on an empty chamber.

You will encounter far more problems if it is much tighter than 5 thou than you will if it is a little looser. This is in respect with just about every case except the PPC case I believe. The smallest kernel of powder or debris can cause bolt closing problems.
 
The riveted extractor were always a money maker for me. I never replaced the old extractors for the 720, 721, unless someone took them out and lost one.

Do whatever you have to do to get the new extractor to work, you will be doing a service to the rifles owner.
 
Thanks for the replies......

Dennis,

I was hoping you would chime in, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

Big Al,

Are you saying I should try to install a rivet less extractor? I'm not following what you are saying (not that smart).

Do either of you have any pictures of an anvil you are using to peen the rivet back in? I was careful not to damage the extractor/rivet when I took the extractor out, and I have read on other posts that I may be able to reuse the rivet again, is that true? The rivet less would be so much easier if it would interchange.

Thanks again for the replies,
Med.
 
Here's what I do to keep it very simple. This is more clearence than most smith's would recommend but works for me.

I use three measurements when chambering a Remington barrel.

Example
1. headspace .885
2. tenon length .885-.010= .875
3. bolt counter bore .150

Turn the tenon to .875
touch the back of the barrel with a boring bar, go .150 deep X bolt nose diameter + .015
put a slight chamfer on counter bore
then chamber
this lets the go gage extend beyond the tenon .010 so it easy to measure HS and gives .010 clearence on the bolt nose.

Rule #1 around here "don't do anything to make the phone ring". Too tight/close will make the phone ring and does nothing to help accuracy in fact can and will hurt accuracy if the bolt touches the barrel.

Dave

Dave
 
Remington Clearance Questions

The new rivetless extractors will NOT fit the old bolt and I doubt it would be practical to machine the bolt to make it work. Replacement extractors for either style are available from brownells.

David Tooley's simple instructions for bolt clearance are "Just Right".

Scott Roeder
 
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Dennis Sorensen said:
I would go for no less than 5 thou clearance and no more than 10 thou clearance. When the barrel is on tight - a stripped bolt should fall freely closed on an empty chamber.
Click to expand...


I am with Dennis on this, .007" clearance on everything, not too tight, not too loose.

At .007" clearance one can just begin to feel the discernable gap between parts, and because these are non-bearing interfaces that do not affect accuracy it is the perfect dimension that gives a little leeway for machining error, yet is close enough to contain stuff during case ruptures.............................Don
 
I just had my 700 rebarreled and the bolt nose is touching the barrel. The smith said one of the things he does is to be sure the front of the bolt is touching the barrel and this is how he does them to keep tolerances snug but I see on another thread that this is not a good thing(there was some arguement on this tho).

How tricky/expensive is this to have corrected? Is it even necessary being that its already all done? What should a guy do here?

Thanks,

Jamie
 
jaybic said:
I just had my 700 rebarreled and the bolt nose is touching the barrel. The smith said one of the things he does is to be sure the front of the bolt is touching the barrel and this is how he does them to keep tolerances snug but I see on another thread that this is not a good thing(there was some arguement on this tho).

How tricky/expensive is this to have corrected? Is it even necessary being that its already all done? What should a guy do here?

Thanks,

Jamie
Click to expand...

If the action and bolt have been trued there have been experiments done with having the bolt nose fitted to the barrel recess and contact occurs there in diameter only.

The end of the bolt however should never contact the barrel.

Your problem is very easy to fix. The barrel is removed and the nose clearance is increased by a few thou and the barrel re installed.
 
Bolt nose measurements

On the relatively few Rem bolts I've measured, the front edges of the lugs were positioned .002" to .005" behind the bolt faces.

Is this common for the Rem bolts ?

Are the front edges of the lugs ever in line with or ahead of the bolt faces ?

Thanks for any replies.

A. Weldy
 
Are the front edges of the lugs ever in line with or ahead of the bolt faces ?

It's never been a measurement I use - so of the many hundreds I have done I can't say... but I suspect what you have measured is normal.
 
Thanks.............

Dave,Dennis and others. Dave I opted to use your method, I tightened things up just a touch. It worked perfectly. I got it all done and I hope to shoot it this weekend.
 
I've only measured 6 but the lugs were .003" - .004" lower than the face on all. I measure to make sure the clearance is correct.
 
jaybic said:
I just had my 700 rebarreled and the bolt nose is touching the barrel. The smith said one of the things he does is to be sure the front of the bolt is touching the barrel and this is how he does them to keep tolerances snug but I see on another thread that this is not a good thing(there was some arguement on this tho).

How tricky/expensive is this to have corrected? Is it even necessary being that its already all done? What should a guy do here?

Thanks,

Jamie
Click to expand...

Jamie, You might have got a bs line from a smith who dosen't want to correct a problem he made. That statment even comming out of an experienced smiths mouth would cause me concern. If thats one of his crazy accuracy tricks, I would hate to see what else is up his sleave!

I have heard of some smiths making the side clearance pretty tight in br guns but never touching on the end/nose clearance.

Powder kerneal, brass shaving, a small piece of sand or grit, who knows what else could cause that bolt to lock up. Is this a hunting rifle or match gun?

I will correct it for you if you want, I'm right next door.
 
In the past, I fitted the trued bolt nose to the counterbore with very little clearnce on the diameter. The rifles shot well and I liked it as a means of ensuring bolt alignment at the front. Having been told repeatedly that the bolts should have more clearance because striker vibrations influenced the barrel or some such thing, I started fitting them with more clearance but installed a teflon O-ring in the counterbore to support the bolt nose. This worked too and I liked it as a unique feature (our real reason for doing many things).
No modern accuracy actions that I'm aware of use a recessed bolt nose with the coned breech being most popular so it's pretty obvious that support of the bolt nose by anything other than the receiver bore is of no real value. Of course modern accuracy actions feature pretty close tolerances but the old, sloppy Remingtons worked fine with clearance too.
On Remingtons I barrel for hunting, the counterbore is .705 diameter and the clearance ahead of the nose and the front of the lugs is roughly .010. Works fine. Regards, Bill
 
Remington clearance question

The bolt touching the barrel is a very real problem and should be avoided, as it will result in damage to the locking lug abutments as the bolt cams closed. This damage will subsequently reduce the locking lug engagement area over time.

The pictures are of a Remington Model 700 receiver, rebarreled by a “name” gunsmith and the barrel. The pictures may show insufficient detail, as the file size is limited.
 

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Interesting photos HPC, the first showing the amout of lug contact area on an untrued Rem 700. I can't tell by the pic that the lug seats are damaged. The second clearly shows bolt contact. Is there no chamfer on the chamber?
 
Chamfer question

The chamfer is there; however the picture does not reveal the necessary detail.

PM sent.

HPC
 
I barreled my first rifle, a Rem 700 and i measured from the front of the action with the recoil lug laying on it to the front of the Bolt Lug and then subtracted .015 from the measurement for the tenon length and then measured to the bolt face for my head-space measurement and then measured from the front of the bolt to the front of the bolt lugs for the counter-bore and it work great . After i chambered the rifle and bedded it , the first three shot group was right at 1/2 inch with the Barnes Triple Shock the cal 25 STW. Needless to say i was very happy for my first rifle build and to have never went to Gunsmith School. I did take 6 months of machine shop training in the mid 60's.
 
Well,

I may have learned something(much thanks to Jim S at Centershot Rifles et al). In a post above I mentioned the snug bolt lock up on my 700 and I think it is not messed up after all.

My bolt feels very snug when closed(even on an empty chamber) and my smith said one of the things he does to enhance accuracy is to make sure the bolt nose is touching the barrel. According to most folks here that is not correct. I stripped the bolt as per Jims instructions and found that when the shroud and firing pin are removed, I can close the bolt and the bolt handle with simply fall with gravity and I lifted the bolt and let go and each time it would fall right back into the closed position with no hang up.

I also checked for a little play in the bolt diameter by reaching thru the open floor plate with my fingers inside and thumb over the top and found just the slightest bit of movement of the bolt(perpendicular to the bore).

I guess perhaps I misunderstood what my smith was trying to tell me but according to Jims instructions, it appears all is correct here and I have no problem.

Just wanted to say thanks to Jim, Dennis Sorenson, and others for their advice. I appreciate it a great deal and I am now confident that I can lay blame for any lousy shooting at the feet of said rifle owner. Me:)

Thanks guys,

Jamie(real name)
 
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