Redding Bump Die?

This may come as a surprise but, I disagree with Allen. We use shoulder bump dies periodically in order to get a better chamber fit. It comes with the territory of winning at BR and not throwing out brass prematurely. And that is with the use of an FL die the rest of the time.
 
My FL dies (6PPC) size the base of my brass about .0005. and I bump my shoulders about.001 from what a tight case measures. One die does not reduce the shoulder diameter, and the others about .0025 or so. My brass seems to have very good life, and I do not have to trim very often. What do your dies do?
 
You and I do it differently.
I'll just leave it at that.
My method and my dies allow me to shoot hot and have cases that are in service long after others are in the trash can.
 
Wilbur said:
Are Y'all saying that shoulder bumping is dangerous for a PPC? Further, will shoulder bumping not shoot acceptable aggregates?
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"bump die" may well mean many things, but "bump die" as I'm referring to is a relic of the 80's and is a die cut with the chambering reamer and used only to push the shoulder back.

"dangerous" may well mean many things but I can assure you that "bumping the shoulder" using a die cut with the chambering reamer WILL result in head separation over time.

It can't help it.

Now, Wally's concept of "bump die" made from 12L14 "Leadloy" and hardened so it shrinks just a fuzz isn't quite a bump die..... it's somewhere betwixt a bump and a fl and it offers decent life on PPC cases IME. Maybe 20-30rds anyway. Not nearly enough for me but enough for a lots of folks.

I've watched a lot of folks "periodically add another step" and I can't see the benefit. Me, I like 50-100 firings per case ALL THE SAME. Any round that's been sized differently might just as well go into the berm...... there's 5 bucks/round......35.00-40.00 per target.....

Like I said, I don't get it.

Differn't strokes

:)

al
 
alinwa said:
I'm not Boyd and have no dawg in this fight but I'll go on record as alinwa saying "there's no difference between the requirements of factory VS Bench Rest" when it comes to making and maintaining topnotch cases.

Brass life and maintenance is what it is regardless of pedigree
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Which type of resizing method would you use if the requirements for benchrest and factory are the same. Mine has Jewell trigger and nightforce--good. I know it is not a benchrest level rifle. But wouldn't you want to see the best it can do? Maybe 1/2 inch is all it can shoot, maybe not. If I cut it to 1/4" I think it would be an outstanding factory rifle--maybe the best out there. So I outside turn the necks. Sort brass and bullets. Debur flash hole. Then start thinking about making neck tension light and consistent. Then decide cartridge needs to fit chamber more snug. Seems the Forster bump die with neck bushings is the answer. As far as what everyone else is doing, they are full length sizing with RCBS die, right, so it isn't about following trends. Gotta find an advantage, but not so far that I am having custom dies made. Seems this Forster die would produce a fit more like that in benchrest chamber than RCBS fl die. Are you sure the bump die won't result in a snug cartridge to chamber fit helping to point the bullet down the bore? Cannot have anything dangerous though. I am gathering the case head separation is more likely in 6PPC than others, right? Or that Forster bump dies leading to case head separation is a remote possibility? I have some all loaded up, but haven't fired any since changing to the new Forster bump die with neck bushings.
 
theyre saying get a custom FL die made if you wanna take it to the next level. RCBS is not anywhere near the top in the quality dept these days. if you get a die off the shelf get a wilson. if not that get a redding bushing die since you turned the necks. and try more neck tension- it seems to work better. people turn necks for consistency in factory brass. measure a loaded round and determine your bushing size- buy 5 or 6 to experiment with.
 
Are y'all saying do this die thing as long as you use the same reamer for barrel after barrel - or do I have to get a new die for a different reamer? OR...are you saying that one FL die will fit almost all reamers if you get one (die) that sizes small enough..and that's OK?
 
your gunsmith can get a reamer matched to your chamber reamer called a "resize reamer" then can make a FL bushing die and have it hardened. thats the best way.
 
Wilbur said:
Are y'all saying do this die thing as long as you use the same reamer for barrel after barrel -
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Wilbur hit the nail on the head. One often over-looked fact is reamers wear. We make our own and I can say from experience, after 10 - 15 chambers, dimensions wane (and I'm talking Rockwell 68 - 70 on hardness). So say you have a finisher that's 0.005" at the base over the rougher (which is what you cut the FL with). Chamber 8 or 10 barrels and that 0.005" difference may erode.

Years ago, we turned .401 Bobcat reamers for our custom Ruger conversions. The finisher was used on four cylinders, or 24 holes. I'll have to re-mic it, but the wear was material.

There are a lot of ways to make FL sizers, but here's our approach. On something like a PPC, you're trying to get a die that's so close to the chamber, reaming is tough. Grinding to the ten-thousandth is possible if you have the right equipment, but it isn't a given. Even if you get the rougher dead on, reamers walk a bit. For that reason, we make our roughers under the desired dimensions by a couple of thou and hone to final spec. I'm pretty sure that's how Harrells does theirs.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
For the shooter that wants to have his own chamber reamer, that will typically not see the amount of use that a gunsmith's might, I suggest an approach that several of us have had good results with. Buy the FL die first. Get a hold of some well used and work hardened sized brass that is large enough to be sized by the die. Size a few cases. Measure them carefully, and order a chamber reamer dimensioned to give the clearance on sized brass that you want. We have done this with one piece dies, for tight neck chambers, and end up with the neck tension that we were looking for, and extremely straight sized brass. I cannot claim to be the originator of this idea. I got it from a friend who had used that approach on a couple of rifles that he had had built, with good results.
 
I think Y'all are saying that you can't just simply buy a FL die that fits any reamer but rather buy the reamer and have a die made to fit the reamer...is that what your saying? Make that question fit those that have the stuff to create their own dies.

Please believe that I don't know what's going on these days. When I quit traveling, almost everybody was using a bump die and those that were using FL dies weren't doing well. Also believe that I know full well the problems of just bumping but found an "acorn" now and then that satisfied my needs. Hey, that brings up another question...if you just bump or FL the entire case...where does the brass go?
 
Do I smell a rhetorical question? The more that you change the various dimension of the case body by sizing, the more the case will grow each time that it is sized. I have a Harrell Varibase die that is not designed to reduce shoulder diameter. The bushing that I have in its base reduces fired cases about .0005 in that area, and I bump shoulders a maximum of .001 from what a tight case measures. Cases sized with that die grow in length very slowly. Other dies that size the diameter of case shoulders about .0025 show more growth, but not an objectionable amount. I am told that for "running" that having too tight of a case to chamber fit, is not the current fashion among the best shooters.
 
We runners sacrifice case life for gun function. Brass is cheap not like it was back in the day when we were making ppc cases from 7.62x39 AK brass
 
Bingo, Dusty.
For we runners, we have to, absolutely gotta have free feeding and easy extraction. And I didn't even mention undisturbed bags.
 
OK.... to Wilbur.

Good Question, and here is the answer, to those who can hear it.

NOWHERE!

If your fit is truly proper, the brass goes NOWHERE, you never have to trim. IF YOU ARE TRIMMING then you are thinning the case at the base.

period.

If you ARE NOT having to trim cases, you are either very lucky, or very good.

99.9% of the people who reload, including those on this shooting forum do not believe me.........that's ok, but ball don't lie.

al
 
I had to buy my first case trimmer the other day for my 30br. never trimmed a PPC case in all my days. but Ive always had a die made from the correct reamer so I think that may be some of it.
 
Bump Die

Wilbur said:
I think Y'all are saying that you can't just simply buy a FL die that fits any reamer but rather buy the reamer and have a die made to fit the reamer...is that what your saying? Make that question fit those that have the stuff to create their own dies.

Please believe that I don't know what's going on these days. When I quit traveling, almost everybody was using a bump die and those that were using FL dies weren't doing well. Also believe that I know full well the problems of just bumping but found an "acorn" now and then that satisfied my needs.




Kinda mirrors my experience with sizing dies.

I first took the plunge in 1999. Bought a used Benchrest rifle(Stolle Panda 6PPC) from a well known veteran shooter. The rifle came with an unmodified Wilson neck die and seater,An arbor press and a plastic mallet. The seller turned some brass for me and showed me how to use the Wilson neck die and seater. I used that brass in competition for a whole year, because I didn't trust my neck turning skills. Started out with 20 pieces of neck turned brass. By the end of the year,only seven pieces were still usable. I looked around at some of the matches and noticed that a good number of shooters were using the same set up as mine. A few were using full length dies. I'd be willing to bet that a reputable number of aggregates have been won by shooters using Wilson Neck Dies. I won a few myself. I have Never owned a bump die. My mentor never mentioned such an item.

I switched to full length sizing dies when somebody promised me that I could shoot smaller aggs using hot loads of V-133.:D


Glenn
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Chism G said:
Wilbur said:
I switched to full length sizing dies when somebody promised me that I could shoot smaller aggs using hot loads of V-133.:D


Glenn
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So how's that workin' out for yeh?

You can miss much faster now cantcha'

LOL
al

Hey, all joking aside, in the few 600yd matches I've competed in I'm firmly convinced that you'd best be able to spray and pray at a wikkid high rate of speed you wanna' win.
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Update (Echoed over at AccurateShooter. I never received and topic reply notifications here, so have been AWOL, sorry. But you chaps have been having a fun time without me.):

I obtained and set up a Redding Body Die using the Redding Competition Sehllholder set. Using the +.008 shellholder and a 1/8 die turn cam-over in the press, the cases now chamber with significantly less resistance - but not like unfired cases.

Using a .375-cal Stoney Point bullet comparator to contact the shoulders near the middle, my low-tech Mitutoyo dial caliper suggests the shoulders are being set back ~1-2 thousandths. Using a good micrometer, I cannot detect any case diameter reduction at the pressure rings.

My conclusion is that, using the controlled sizing afforded by the stepped shellholders, the "body die" has been used successfully as a "bump die".

Flame suit donned.
 
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