reamer 6ppc thoughts

I would suggest smearing a thin film of sizing wax on the cases instead of oil.
Most Lapua 220 Russian cases will come out of a fireform barrel at about 1.490.
 
It all depends on the fit

of the brass in the fire form bbl. If you have a light crush fit ( just can feel the bolt close on the brass) then the oil will not do much. If the bolt just drops with no resistance, then I use a very light coat of 3 in 1 oil.
This will keep the brass from stretching from the base to the web. I would rather have the shoulder blown foward and not stretch the brass at the bottom. The oil will do a good job in this instance. It all depends on the head space of your chamber.

Richard Brensing
 
I have to agree with Jackie. Sizing wax. But too much will dimple the case. If you put just a dab of sizing wax on one palm and rub it between your palms you will have just a thin film of sizing wax on your hands. Then roll the case between your palms. Make sure you get the neck and the shoulder. This will give you a thin coat of wax on the case and enough to allow the case to form without sticking. This also works well when reforming cases. HTH.

Jeffrey

of the brass in the fire form bbl. If you have a light crush fit ( just can feel the bolt close on the brass) then the oil will not do much. If the bolt just drops with no resistance, then I use a very light coat of 3 in 1 oil.
This will keep the brass from stretching from the base to the web. I would rather have the shoulder blown foward and not stretch the brass at the bottom. The oil will do a good job in this instance. It all depends on the head space of your chamber.

Richard Brensing
 
The trend seems to be toward longer throats, I went back to a .055, I know one very good shooter. ( with emphasis on very good), who uses a .070.

Guys, a lot of the throating depth depends on the bullet you plan to shoot. For example if you shoot a bullet made on a 750 jacket and with a 8.5 ogive nose (yes Ed Watson made some and Bart Sauter has those dies probably) a zero freebore would put enough of the bullet in the case to make a stable load. A 0.085 freebore in this bullet would only leave about 1/16" in the case neck and a 1.490 case would leave less than that.

In contrast a bullet made on a 825 jacket and with a 6 ogive nose and a 1.500 case would put the bullet near or on the "dreaded donut".

Granted, these are extremes, but the important consideration is, not the freebore depth, per se, but making a load that you can get consistent neck tension since consistent neck tension on some powders is much more important than freebore depth.

One issue I have with these 268-270 necks is that as the brass starts to work harden, and it will, is this consistent neck tension problem. The thicker neck wall will have more inconsistent springback from sizing than a thinner neck wall will. Don't believe that? Take a piece of solid copper # 6 wire and a piece of # 18 wire and see which one breaks first when you bend them to the breaking point!!!
 
One issue I have with these 268-270 necks is that as the brass starts to work harden, and it will, is this consistent neck tension problem. The thicker neck wall will have more inconsistent springback from sizing than a thinner neck wall will. Don't believe that? Take a piece of solid copper # 6 wire and a piece of # 18 wire and see which one breaks first when you bend them to the breaking point!!!

Jerry, I get differences in neck tension now with my .262 necks. They're all to .085 thickness, at least they'd better be considering what I paid for this prepped brass. Annealing would seem to be the answer to the inconsistency, and my thought is that it would be easier to get consistent annealing with thicker necks. Disclaimer, I'm no metallurgist so that's just a gut feeling on my part. Contrary opinions welcome.
 
I suggest that you go slow on the annealing, a case or two and test. I am pretty sure that an annealed case would have less neck tension, and some powders (133) seem to "like" neck tension. Recently I have tried a .263 neck to get back some of the brass that I had had to turn off to get where I want to be for loaded round clearance. So far, I like the change. I don't feel like I am in a marginal situation as I did with .008 neck thickness for the .262 chambers. As to being easier to anneal, if you mean less time in flame, and that time more critical to avoid dead soft necks, I guess you would be right. I am kidding. Thin necks would be super critical if you want to retain as much neck tension as you can, while improving uniformity of bullet seating force. I have done some annealing with a good machine for a friend, I picked it out for him, did the research on setup and helped him with that. We did what we wanted to, but they were much bigger cases, and their necks quite a bit thicker. For a short case, the issue of heat migration down the body of the case would be quite a bit more critical. Perhaps some sorting so that all the cases in a group and sighters feel the same would be a better way to go. Strangely, I have found that cases can become less uniform with use, and then even out in longer use. Has anyone else run across this. Perhaps they hit the maximum for work hardening. Years back, I knew a very good shooter who used a one piece FL die and expander to work his necks several times before turning. He said it was to make the inside surfaces of the necks more regular (more cylindrical, less "bumpy'). I wonder if a similar setup could be used to run a test on some cases to see if repeated sizing and expanding would bring them up to the same hardness after a number of cycles. I think that the trick would be to keep the amount of both within smaller limits than is usual with unturned necks and the usual one piece dies.
 
Strangely, I have found that cases can become less uniform with use, and then even out in longer use.

Boyd,
Not strange at all. Brass can only get so hard, then it remains the same time after time. The best way to get consistent brass is to work-harden it until it reaches this constant level of hardness. A good way to get inconsistent brass is to anneal it with a process that varies with each case, say, if you are timing the heating by hand. I think the reason some get good results with annealing is that the soft necks have such low tension that it makes little difference what the tension is. Then as the brass hardens, the variability does make a difference until the variability goes away as all the brass is fully work-hardened.

Cheers,
Keith
 
Who says there's anything wrong with varied neck tension? If you're saying that it matters, do you really know or just think you know? I'm really just asking this, but, I've shot a few pretty good matches with necks being all over the place - never been a long term winner.

BTW - thinking you know is good enough if you've tried it both ways...
 
Who says there's anything wrong with varied neck tension? If you're saying that it matters, do you really know or just think you know? I'm really just asking this, but, I've shot a few pretty good matches with necks being all over the place - never been a long term winner.

BTW - thinking you know is good enough if you've tried it both ways...

Wilbur,
It is a good question - whether neck tension makes any difference at all. A lot of people think that it does, but has anyone done any side-by-side testing? I haven't. I have observed part of what Boyd described - in my case, rifles that don't shoot their best until the brass has been sized 6-8 times. There is a plausible reason for that related to neck tension. But it would be good to, say, anneal half the cases and compare accuracy between the two groups.

The force on a 0.308" bullet at a peak pressure of 60 ksi is 4470 lb. A really bad variation in neck tension might correspond to a 100 lb difference, which is only about 2% of the peak force from the powder. That is not much. On the other hand, a 100 lb difference could have a greater impact on early combustion when pressure is lower. A 100 lb difference corresponds to a 1340 psi difference in the pressure when the bullet releases. The ramp-up in pressure would be increased for a short, and maybe critical, time.

I don't know. I am just rambling, I guess. Would love to hear if anyone has done some proper testing.

Keith
 
OK, just for grins, if you haven't "tested"...what do you think is best? Are you winning?
 
Wilbur,
I value real data over opinions, even my own.:D

As for winning, you can judge for yourself. It's all there on the IBS website.

Cheers,
Keith
 
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