Professional Shooting League, Calfee

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BrentD said:
Let's see if I can give you an example.

Here are two shooters on the same bull. Red vs. Yellow. Which shooter is the more accurate?

BTW, neither of those yellow bullet holes touch the inner white circle, but my screen does not have enough resolution to show that.

Which has the lowest string score (best score), and which has the highest ring score?

Example%20target.jpg
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I'm pretty sure that top red shot will plug out, so the yellow shooter has the highest ring score. Well now you went and move the shot.
 
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James, BrentD must be on another planet. BrentD, one more time. They are shooting score or one shot per bullseye. They are not shooting group! Is that more clear?
Butch
 
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You guys have destroyed this thread

The PSL target is what it is, the rules are what they are. Why even continue to discuss another way to score?
 
I can see now how this is a little the heads of a few folks here. But I doubt they are representative of the benchrest crowd. I altered the example for those that were having a hard time. Maybe this is simple enough...

Anyway, I leave you to consider the possibilities. It just might be that an old method is a better method.

And John, if you think Harry ever shot a money match to be determined with sticks and string, you have another think coming. History is worth revisiting every so often it may be helpful.

Brent
 
It took five pages but we went from PSL to 200 yard string measurements. I propose we have one match for spider monkeys shooting revolvers. Is this a great country or what?
 
BrentD said:
I can see now how this is a little the heads of a few folks here. But I doubt they are representative of the benchrest crowd. I altered the example for those that were having a hard time. Maybe this is simple enough...

Anyway, I leave you to consider the possibilities. It just might be that an old method is a better method.

And John, if you think Harry ever shot a money match to be determined with sticks and string, you have another think coming. History is worth revisiting every so often it may be helpful.

Brent
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Brent,

I doubt that anybody really had a problem understanding it. It's a really simple concept. The point is, that's not the game that was chosen. If you change the scoring method, you change the strategy.
 
Brent

BrentD said:
I can see now how this is a little the heads of a few folks here. But I doubt they are representative of the benchrest crowd. I altered the example for those that were having a hard time. Maybe this is simple enough...

Anyway, I leave you to consider the possibilities. It just might be that an old method is a better method.

And John, if you think Harry ever shot a money match to be determined with sticks and string, you have another think coming. History is worth revisiting every so often it may be helpful.

Brent
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Rimfire benchrest has been scored without a string for 20 years. I don't how we got this far without the string measurement but I will be sure to ask this question of Macky, Wilbur, Dan K. and Bob Collins. Does that make you happy?
 
Brent,Why do you want to change something that has worked for 20 years and then don't understand the concept that started the whole base scoring method. Read up on the info first then comment (no comment James) or better yet shot some BR targets at 50 yds. to understand what Dan is doing.
 
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Brent

Come on down to the Barn in Feb. My 8 year old Grandson should be able to explain how to score and plug the PSL target so you can understand how it's done. He won't charge anything for the lesson.
 
Beau,
You are the only one on here that seems to want to have a civilized discussion, so how is one's strategy changed by a more precise measure? I don't see it.

Lew, I see swapping insults seems to be your stock in trade, but tell me, what exactly do you gain by all that? If it makes ya feel bigger, I guess I'm happy to oblige ya, but sure is a strange way to promote a sport.

It's a wonder this sport recruits a new shooter every ten to twenty years.

Brent
 
I just read the rules of the PSL competition....very cool.

I am very new to this (benchrest shooting) and am reading more each day. The formation of the PSL looks like it can be tons of fun. I already plan on building a solid benchrest and setup my own place to shoot those blue and white targets....looks like fun.
 
This is a stitch. Brent please explain how one would string a target when there is only one hole in the bull. 25 bulls, 25 holes with each bull being scored separately. I don't begin to understand your issue with this. Color me very confused. bob finger
 
I'm kinda a dope and I understand Brent's concept. After thinking about it a little, maybe an easier way to comprehend is a target without circles drawn on the paper, just 25 dots; each dot is the point of aim, measure the distance from the dot to the bullet hole, then add up the sum of the 25 shots, that's the score; in this case lowest score wins. On all of our best edge scoring targets, you could have two shots, say a nine, but one will be closer to the X than the other, but they will both be a nine. Makes sense to me, there sure wouldn't be any ties. I guess the diffulculty would be the person doing the scoring, you'd have to use a caliper (time consuming) and you'd have to decide how many decimal places to carry the result, and in the end it would stil be a judgement call. It's probably not practical for 50yd matches, too close for deciding factors, but I think it would sure work for 100yds. Let's not be so quick to judge and dismiss someone's ideas. Thanks, Douglas

That said it ain't gonna change Dan's league, he's already got that pretty well figured out.
 
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BrentD said:
Beau,
You are the only one on here that seems to want to have a civilized discussion, so how is one's strategy changed by a more precise measure? I don't see it.

Brent
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Brent,

If I'm shooting for score and shooting in the wind, I will have a hold off. Some shooters dial in the condition, but I try to hold off for the wind. Quite often, I don't really know what the wind will do, but I have an idea. So, I play the average basically and try to hold off so that the bullet impact will be in an estimated range that will still be inside the hundred ring. Ultimately that's what I'm shooting for and whether or not it's in the center or on the edge is no real concern. Now with string measurement, which measures magnitude but not direction of error, I have to shoot for the center. So, it changes the way I'm looking at the target. On the average, I don't really think the actual magnitude of error would change very much whether it's score or string, but I would bet that if you used string measure and compared it to how that would translate to score, your average score would go down simply because you are now trying for more precise shot placement. The actual magnitude of error, however, would stay about the same on average.
 
Well I found the rules.
Do I understand them correctly?
There is no weight limit?
Basically anything goes as long as factory ammo and rest
is not attached to bench?
Electric trigger, return to battery etc...???
:confused:

Where would a guy get a 50yd bbl:rolleyes:
 
The best way to do scoring would be electronically like they do for position shooting. They are instantly scored and everyone has a monitor to watch. The only problem is, they have one POA and not 25 different ones. So, one of you tech guys figure out how to make the position electronic scoring work for us.
 
Beau, you and I shoot about the same way. I dial in major wind but then hold off for the small rapid changes. Like you, I try to optimize my best guess at the effect for the very center of the bull. I guess I don't see that changing if I am shooting for ring score or string measure. The name of the game is still "shoot center" every time.

The only difference I see is that I might guess a little bit wrong and not get penalized for it - if the game is scoring by rings. But if we are talking about evaluating the best rifleman and rifle, I definitely should be penalized for such guesses that turn out to be less than perfect.

Besides, as someone else just pointed out in an offline email, when you have every dime you can afford invested in a rifle that is built to the highest tolerances, by the very best smith, shooting the best ammo, don't you want to evaluate the performance with the most precise and critical method possible? You have the best, most precise technology in your gear, buy you have pretty mediocre technology in the evaluation of all that gear (and shooters). Seems to be a mismatch.

All interesting though. And I sure appreciate your gun building story. Any guy that has the ear of Calfee must be an okay guy.
 
Brent,
I think your reasoning is just fine. I do think the targets needs rings for hold off. I'd say start up a league and do it but I think what a lot of people are trying to get across is you just may have found an answer to a question that doesn't exist. That's all. Your idea makes a lot more sense than the CEP i mentioned in an earlier post.

Hovis
 
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