Problems with my new ppc

C

Codeman

Member
I had posted previous about haveing trouble FL sizing some brass that came wit my used PPC. I ended up scrapping 35 of the 50 cases that came with the gun. I decided to make some new brass for the gun. After neck turning some new 220 R, I tried to chamber the cases (unloaded), the bolt will not close on these new cases. I will eventually get a new barrel put on but dont have the funds right now. What is my problem? Bad chamber? Bad bolt? HELP

Cody
 
codeman

First, scrap the other 15 cases , as you have no idea of their history.
second, the culprit in most cases is interference at the neck-shoulder
junction. Using a non bushing FL die, size cases, adjusting die downward
just to where the cases go in and the bolt closes, no more. Quite often
the expander button or ball opens that neck-shoulder area back up
and causes the same problem. Either change to a 22 expander or
reduce the diameter of the 6mm ball.
 
On my 6PPC, if you don't turn onto the shoulder the full width of the neck turner cutter chamfer, bolt closure requires a great deal of force, and if this is done (with the lugs well greased, to prevent their being galled) a so called "doughnut" ,at the base of the neck, is formed.

In my opinion, with the short bullets that we use in short range Benchrest, and the usual throat configurations, doughnuts are more of an aesthetic problem than a functional one. On the other hand, hard bolt closure risks lug finish damage, and should be avoided.

When I first started turning necks for my PPC, I was concerned that turning on the shoulder would weaken the case, so I sectioned a couple using a reinforced abrasive wheel on my cordless Dremel. (Wear glasses and a paper mask for this, since the brass dust is thrown right into your face.)From that, I could see that there was no problem. I should add that I like an old Sinclair turner for my rough cut. It has a rather broad chamfer that is easy to see which makes controlling the cut easier. I strive for an end of cut, on the shoulder that does not easily catch my thumb nail. A little trial and error has taught me that if I reverse toward the mouth of the case just as soon as the cut reached the full width of the chamfer, I should be OK.

Setting the case fit by the cut on the shoulder might not be practical if your chamber is very short, but for mine it works fine, and I don't get doughnuts.
 
blacken some cases with a black felt tip marker, and try to chamber them; this sometimes leeve marks where the problem is.
I also had this with some cases that where too long...
silly me!
good luck Maarten
 
Codeman,


Just remember, THIS IS GOOD!!! It was short-chambered ON PURPOSE.......

The base root of the PPC equation is based on proper brass fit for fireforming, short-chambering allows you to set you own fireforming headspace via either neck turning as Boyd says or even by subtly bumping the shoulder. All of this is key to the PPC's agg'ing ability, embrace it.

You'll find several areas where your standard reloading/shooting practices need be modified, it's the difference between running a racing car and driving the Daily Chevy to town for groceries. Once you've got the basice mastered though the PPC WILL literally stack bullets :) it's worth it.

al
 
It is very common for the PPC to be chambered so that 220 russian brass must be slightly FL sized to chamber properly in the rifle. This may not be the case with your rifle and you need to determine how to properly fit the brass to your chamber. I'm just letting you know that nothing is necessarily wrong if neck turned 220 Russian brass does not chamber without the PROPER Fl sizing.
When I chamber with my reamer and go guage the brass needs to be sized slightly to chamber. You do not want to oversize the brass, just push it back enough to chamber with light pressure on the bolt handle. The other thing I learned with the PPC and custom actions is that you are never supposed to force the bolt closed. If it won't chamber easily you really do have to go back and get things set up right no matter how bad you might want to shoot it that day!
If you can possibly find someone with experience to show you it will save you a lot of aggravation.
 
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I find that the expander does not make a sharp edge at the neck/shoulder. I find I need to size the brass to make a sharper joint. Then turning goes better, and the brass will chamber.

Jim
 
I only have a redding small base FL bushing die.
Do I need to get a standard FL PPC USA dieOr do I need to get a custom from Harrels?
 
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I use a Redding body die, and the difference can be seen with the naked eye. I've read that Redding bushing dies have large neck openings, so large that one guy claims that they can be used for one size larger cartridge.

Jim
 
220 Russian

I have always set my chamber dimensions to where I have to slightly bump the shoulder on a typical Lapua 220 Russian so that it chambers easilly. I just run into into a PPC die, all that hits is a narrow ring a little above the neck shoulder junction. No big deal.

I am confused about these "expander ball" statements. What are you using an expander ball for??

Al made some good points. Benchrest is a World unto its self. Many concepts that are used in the "civilian world" do not translate. There is a lot of miss information floating around that perpetuates a lot of myths.

But, you are at the right place to get the real scoop........jackie
 
Last 220 russian brass I picked up is 1.540 in length. They have to be trimmed significantly before fireforming. They are to long for the chamber.

Hovis
 
Hovis

That is another advantage of blowing out the cases first, then neck turning. The shoulder is where it's supposed to be, and the length is about right.

The reason many shooters never have problems is when they neck the case up to 6mm to fit the turning mandrel, it also pushes the entire assy back, and it would fit into a 1.525 length chamber. After firing, the expansion pulled everything back to the 1.490, or there abouts, that many use as a standard trim to length..........jackie
 
I'll check the lenght tonight to see if that the problem.

What die should I get to bump the shoulder back for FF?
As far as expander ball I'm not sure what their referring to - I didnt make that statement
 
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jackie schmidt said:
That is another advantage of blowing out the cases first, then neck turning. The shoulder is where it's supposed to be, and the length is about right.

The reason many shooters never have problems is when they neck the case up to 6mm to fit the turning mandrel, it also pushes the entire assy back, and it would fit into a 1.525 length chamber. After firing, the expansion pulled everything back to the 1.490, or there abouts, that many use as a standard trim to length..........jackie
Click to expand...

I agree jackie. I form my cases first, then neck turn. The last set I did. After firing the first case and inspecting, I found land marks on the neck. Bad deal I believe, but I sure could see how long my chamber and leade was. Had to trim the rest of the brass before I fired it. After trimming and firing, they came out 1.508. I then trimmed again. Next time. I'll fire one and trim them closer to where I need them so I don't have to take so much off the second time.

Hovis
 
My cases measure 1.500 to 1.505

Some one mentioned a standard non bushing FL die to bump back the shoulder

another said a body die (I didint think a body die touches the shoulder)

What die do I need to get to push the shoulder back so I can chamber and FF these new cases

Thanks, Cody
 
Well I tried Joel's instructions and I still can't close the bolt.

Length of case 1.500
Neck measures .258 (turned to .0086)


What now?
 
Stop

I feel safe in saying that if I, or many of the other fine Posters on this Forum, had this Rifle in their hands, they could figure out what is going on in short time.

But we don't, so please, take the Rifle to someone who knows how all of this works. That's the best I can say.........jackie
 
Redding die 77211. Is a bushing die. They give you an extra decapper rod.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=RD77211&type=store
This a very good picture. Bushing is yellow.
And you will need these.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=RDPU&type=store
And some bushings. .259" to start. then .258".

Jackie. That is where the expander ball comes in. Redding gives you 2 decapping rods. I guess, people see the rod in the die and assume that is the one.
A small enough bushing and the ball expander together won't work. Or you might jam the bushing and expander ball together. Some people don't read instructions or buy good books.

Codeman. Buy Mike Ratigan's book it has pictures and a good story.
And Call Sinclair. They are paid to talk.
 
codeman.
I went back and read some earlier posts on this thread.
Nader indicated "got it worked out".
Did ya figure it out?????
 
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