Plugs and muffs

vtmarmot

vtmarmot

P Magoon, Livin' Free NH
OK, for shooting, I've been using orange foam plugs and Howard Leight electronic muffs and found the combo to be OK. Recently, I found my hearing damage is much worse than I thought. I went to an audiologist at the top-notch hospital where I work to get fitted for hearing aids (subject for another post). While there I got fitted for molded plugs. They came in the mail a couple of weeks ago, about the same time as a new pair of Howard Leight maximum reduction muffs I had just ordered. I have worn the new plugs and muffs for three sessions on my riding mower (about an hour each). I found myself thinking "this is louder than normal". Tonight, before I put the mower away, I put in some foam plugs and put on my 45 year old American Optical muffs which I usually use for mowing. I turned on the mower and blades and feel like it was quieter than the new setup. I wonder if the molded plugs cause more bone conduction of sound, maybe because the fit is so tight? If I had to guess, I'd say that is the case. I also think the old muffs are better, even though I've replaced the foam with something I had laying around. Maybe the fit is better?
 
Properly installed foam plugs have a greater noise reduction than fitted plugs. Go look at the E.A.R. website and look at the reduction ratings on the products including molded products. The cheap foam plugs when properly installed are the best ear plugs. I use my fitted plugs for Trap shooting but not with the rifles anymore for the same reason. For rifles I use foam plugs and muffs.

Dale
 
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I shot for years with what was comfortable. When I realized I was damaging my hearing I went to plugs and muffs. That help reduce the rate of hearing loss but that also stopped any communication with people around me. While working with a military group of snipers I discovered Pro Ears. I'm around large caliber rifles as in 338 Lapua and using Pro Ears Pro Mag Gold muffs I no longer need plugs. They are the best at noise reduction that I've ever used.

Dave
 
Back to Foam

Went to an egg shoot today. I went back to my old foam plugs with the Howard Leight muffs, instead of the molded plugs. I do not feel like I beat my ears up as I did when I wore the molded plugs. Not sure whether to make some ear-rings out of them for my wife or just let the cats play with them. I just ordered a 500 pair dispenser of Moldex Meteors plugs. People seem to really like those as they are designed to fit the ear canal better than the straight ones.
 
The foam plugs with the highest db reduction (33) are Hearos. For our MRI patients, we use a 3M industrial foam plug with a 29 db reduction.

For shooting, I use the 29 db foam plugs and the 21 db reduction Peltor Shotgunner ear muffs. For mowing the yard, the 29 db foam plugs go in. -Al
 
About hearing protection

Am a bit surprised to hear that a lot of folks use plugs and muffs together. Are the solid plastic plugs with the little fins on them any good as I have been using them out in the open with my 300Win Mag. ? Worked in the electricity industry as a linesman for 33 years and tried to protect my hearing as best I could but it was difficult as there was, and still probably is a culture even amongst supervisors, that if you wore hearing protection you probably wore a skirt !:mad:
 
I could hear pretty well up until 10 or 12 years ago, and have worn hearing aids for probably the last 8 years. Plugs and muffs are IMHO the only way to try to preserve ones hearing as long and as much as possible.

Being deaf is no fun, not as bad as eyesight going south (got that going on too), but still no fun. Nobody seems to understand that when they walk up and start talking that it takes the ears and brain awhile to catch on that someone just said something. In that time you've missed out on part of it and they have to repeat it if it's important enough.
 
I use foam plugs standalone and am comfortable with their level of protection. I guess time will tell. Now with my 50 BMG I double up. Adding muffs seems sensible with that large brake.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
Wear Your Protection or Suffer

Yes, plugs and muffs always, when shooting, even a .22 or just clearing your muzzle loader with a percussion cap. I have tinnitus pretty bad and that alone is not worth taking a risk for. Add the hearing loss on top of that and you have a real problem. I have been told by audiologists that some people are more prone to hearing damage than others, and if you have a tendency to migraines, you are more likely to get it. I believe that listening to the radio on my long daily commutes has damaged my hearing some. Hearing aids did not help me lower the radio volume at all. I do find that wearing muffs in the car allows the voices on the radio to come through fine at normal volume but cuts out most of the road noise. I listen to news and weather like this, then shut it off.

If you've been wearing just plugs with a .300 magnum, you might want to get tested. You could find you have a good bit of loss and not know it.
 
Dave Tooley said:
I shot for years with what was comfortable. When I realized I was damaging my hearing I went to plugs and muffs. That help reduce the rate of hearing loss but that also stopped any communication with people around me. While working with a military group of snipers I discovered Pro Ears. I'm around large caliber rifles as in 338 Lapua and using Pro Ears Pro Mag Gold muffs I no longer need plugs. They are the best at noise reduction that I've ever used.

Dave
Click to expand...

Dave, is that the electronic model or the non electronic model? I use the pro ears ultra 33 which is non electronic. They are good protection but you have a bit of a problem hearing conversations. :>)

Joe
 
Muffs and plugs

I have commented on this subject before, but every one prefers anecdotal evidence instead of clinical data!!!

First, Any well made foam plug INSERTED PROPERLY will give you about the best sound attenuation possible.

Let me explain again;

If your ear canal is completely plugged, you will have 40-45 dB of sound reduction. That is about 100 to 200 to 1 reduction. The reduction is limited by your mastoid bone as is passes sound from your skull right to your inner ear with about 40-45 dB reduction. That is the maximum you can get, makes no difference whether you add muffs or not.

The reason ear plugs are rated at NRR or noise reduction rating, is that OSHA wanted a useful rating system that accounted for mis-insertion of plugs. What the manufacturer must do is first, measure the best attenuation their plugs can do, and it often is 35-40 dB attenuation. Then they have to figure out the reduction in attenuation by mis-insertion and subtract that from the best number. Hence, a foamie rated at 33 dB when it can do maybe 40dB. People have been seen with yellow foamies sitting sideways horizontally in the bowl of the outer ear!

the reason some new high quality muffs seem louder than an old pair is that they may have a compressor amplifier that amplifies softer sounds normally, somewhat louder sounds get some attenuation and really loud sounds are limited by the amplifier to a maximum of around 115 dB SPL and the old mastoid bone reduces the 160 dB gun blast to 120 dB so that is why it still sounds loud. But, 120 dB impulse noise is not necessarily bad as the energy in a blast attenuated by 40 dB through the mastoid bone is less that a steady 120 dB sound, which is on the threshold of pain.
Personally, I will not use muffs as they never seal as good as one would like, hence the relatively low NRR rating. Sure, you can put in yellow foamies too, but you can't hear your neighbor talking anymore. With active muffs, you can hear softer sounds just fine.

I use Blast protectors from Etymotic Research. They have a high quality hearing aid compressor amplifier that amplifies soft sounds, mildly attenuates medium noise and limits loud sounds.
Sure, they are expensive, but they protect my hearing, what's left of it, and they allow me to hear lower level sounds. Let's see, you will pay $2000 for that new NF Comp scope, but $400 is too much for a safe pleasurable hearing experience?

And, yes, I'm an electrical Engineer and I did do the masters program in audiology. And I did work in the hearing aid industry. I don't do anecdotal evidence!

Norm Matzen
 
Going deaf

For a man who has worked with trucks and heavy machinery, and have had my fair share of gunfire, at age 64, my hearing is not too bad. I do however have trouble understanding young teenage girls behind the counter in the supermarket. It is probably my hearing but they don't seem to enunciate their words.:mad:
 
The best muffs I could find were 33 dB, non-electronic, and were not the most expensive ones. For me, the electronic muffs just don't do the job. I had an expensive set of electronic muffs, but they didn't seem to be as protective as the 33dB muffs.

regards,
Ron
 
Trouble Hearing Wife

My wife mumbles. She says I mumble. When she doesn't mumble, she trails off. Teenage girls, I don't care what they say as long as they smile nice and half way pay attention.
 
I remember,many years ago,we used to stick empty .38 special brass in our ears for protection:(. Shooting Pistols is more damaging to ears than rifles,because the muzzle is closer to the ears.

I have irreparable high and low frequency loss. Purchased some high dollar hearing aids. Couldn't get used to all the noise. I've worked on a polite way to say "HUH"



Glenn
 
Hearing Aids Experience

I got high-dollar hearing aids recently. Insurance paid for the whole thing as new hips ate up my deductible. I found them way too "bright". When relieving myself, if I hit water, it sounded like dropping marbles into a stainless steel bowl. They also didn't program the buttons to increase and reduce volume as they said they would. I went back and got those things fixed. Now I can tone them down in the rest room or break room or around unruly kids, or boost them for soft-talkers. However, I really only need them for meetings or restaurants, so I generally don't wear them at all. I figure my hearing will get worse, so I have them for when that happens.
 
Murphy98 said:
For a man who has worked with trucks and heavy machinery, and have had my fair share of gunfire, at age 64, my hearing is not too bad. I do however have trouble understanding young teenage girls behind the counter in the supermarket. It is probably my hearing but they don't seem to enunciate their words.:mad:
Click to expand...

why in the world would you be concerned with what young teenage girls have to say?
 
vtmarmot said:
I got high-dollar hearing aids recently. Insurance paid for the whole thing as new hips ate up my deductible. I found them way too "bright". When relieving myself, if I hit water, it sounded like dropping marbles into a stainless steel bowl. They also didn't program the buttons to increase and reduce volume as they said they would. I went back and got those things fixed. Now I can tone them down in the rest room or break room or around unruly kids, or boost them for soft-talkers. However, I really only need them for meetings or restaurants, so I generally don't wear them at all. I figure my hearing will get worse, so I have them for when that happens.
Click to expand...

what does it sound like when you hit your shoes? I would be grateful to be able to hit the water...
 
Retired gun plumber

I'm a retired a gun plumber that, for most of my career, worked on the line with jet A/C.
When I started working on first line maintenance, ear protection was mentioned but not enforced. I am paying for it now.
When we did baseline tests with the Vulcan 20mm cannon at 1000 in. we were required to wear foam plugs and ear muffs(even in those days). For good reason because the blast was impressive to say the least.(You F-104 plumbers will recall this)
But for day-to-day operations it was more a hassle than not to carry our ear defenders to work. Like I said before, I am paying for it now.
If you can wear both, foam inserts and cups, then do so. If not then wear the highest -dB ear protection available to you.
You can only lose hearing, you can never get it back.

Say that again...???

Cheers,
Phil aka tazzman

PS: My tinnitus wakes me up at night. Just a thought.
 
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