Pillar Bedding

R

Russell B

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When pillar bedding the receiver, do most smiths have the pillar in contact with the bottom of the action?

What would be wrong with having the pillar short of touching the receiver steel and then when the bedding compound is added it would fill the void between the pillar and bottom of receiver for a perfect fit.

wouldn't the same thing be accomplished and you would eliminate the step of putting the radius on the end of the pillar touching the bottum of the receiver.

Is this a good or bad way to do it? Is this something that is normally done by some or most smiths?

Russell B
 
I have seen it done that way , but I feel it defeats the whole purpose of metal pillars. If the pillars are lathe turned and held to the action by the action screws then they will be in perfect alignment with the action as the bedding material hardens.
What I don't like is that you will have a thin flake of bedding material ontop of the pillar that is prone to cracking and flaking away at some point in the future.
 
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I understand.

I wasn't suggesting a thin flake or thin layer but a thick layer of bedding material between the top of the pillar and bottom of action, say 1/8'' thick.

You would end up with the same structure in that when the guard screws were tightened there would be no give as in wood compression. That would acheive the intention just as if the pillar were visable.
 
In my opinion 1/8 of bedding material ontop of the metal pillar is still not a strong situation but it would work if the whole process was accurate and well done. It certainly would be better than no bedding or pillars.
I dont understand why you are considering this arrangement as it is just as easy to bed with the pillars solidly screwed to the action base before you set it all into the accrabond or whatever.
When it is hard enough to remove just unscrew the action screws and it should pop out with the pillars left perfectly flat with the accrabonds surface.
Its more complicated than this short reply.
 
Sounds to me like somebody don't want to put the radius in the pillars, or can't
 
My .223 is bedded the way you want to do it and it does work OK but i find it is harder to do right than fixing the pillars to the action.
You can get into a real mess trying to screw the pillars on and hold the barreled action at the same time while bedding material is in the stock.
If you were doing it all the time it would be much easier.
It comes down to personal preference and what tools and materials are available I guess.
Either way the most important issue is a stress free bedding job and that can be screwed up with either technique.
I like to make the pillars two long and after it is all hardened up mill of the excess.
It is much easier with a flat bottomed action . In a round action it may well be the viable option if you cant radius the pillars as Jkob has stated.
 
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To me, cutting a radius on pillars when bedding a Remington 700 action is a waist of time. Remington actions are not perfectly round due to polishing and heat treating, and the OD varies from action to action. The whole point of bedding is to create a stress free mating of the action and stock, and this can not be accomplished if the radius of the pillar does not fit the action perfectly. If the radius of the pillar is too tight stress will be induced when the action screws are tightened, if the radius is too large, there will be no problem with stress but it will only touch at two points at the front and rear of the action screw. I feel the flat pillar is a better option, it to only touches the action at two points, but since it is flat it allows the bedding compound to complete the radius and thus create a stress free union between stock and action.

Todd
 
Some time ago, I had a discussion with George Kelby about pillar bedding. He told me that, back when it was new, that they came to the conclusion that metal to metal was not the way to go. Some time ago I pillar bedded an old 40X stock with custom made, flat topped aluminum pillars that steppped out to a larger diameter near the top. I used a tight fit to the action scews and spacers between their tops and the action, overbedding them with Devcon Plastic Aluminum, after first gluing them in the stock with clear epoxy. There was probably a tenth of an inch of epoxy on top of the pillars. I also milled a wide mortise in the stock between the top of the cutout for the front pillar and the back of the recoil lug mortise to unify those areas when the bedding was done. Later I went back and opened up the screw holes. It worked fine. BTW I understand that cast pillars, of the same material that I bedded with, work as well as any. Any time that you are using a deep section of epoxy it is probably a good idea to go back and skim coat with thinner epoxy to make up for shrinkage since thicker sections shrink more than thin ones.
 
ACArms said:
To me, cutting a radius on pillars when bedding a Remington 700 action is a waist of time. Remington actions are not perfectly round due to polishing and heat treating, and the OD varies from action to action. The whole point of bedding is to create a stress free mating of the action and stock, and this can not be accomplished if the radius of the pillar does not fit the action perfectly. If the radius of the pillar is too tight stress will be induced when the action screws are tightened, if the radius is too large, there will be no problem with stress but it will only touch at two points at the front and rear of the action screw. I feel the flat pillar is a better option, it to only touches the action at two points, but since it is flat it allows the bedding compound to complete the radius and thus create a stress free union between stock and action.

Todd
Click to expand...

I can see your point about imperfect fitting radiused pillars for sure.

I agree that fitting a flat pillar against the round action could make the bedding process a lot easier .
The only thing that worries me is keeping the square face pillars straight and parallel on the round surface .
 
Maybe I am wrong but I don't think it matters a fat rats ass if the pillars are cut to fit the action or not... it's a cosmetic thing.. a metal pillar is going to stop stock compression whether it fits perfectly or not... and how tight are you doing the screws...? Enough to distort the pillars? Regardless of the fit I always bed on top as the last thing done. You can successfully pour pillars from fiberglass as well.
 
Boyd Allen said:
Some time ago, I had a discussion with George Kelby about pillar bedding. He told me that, back when it was new, that they came to the conclusion that metal to metal was not the way to go. Some time ago I pillar bedded an old 40X stock with custom made, flat topped aluminum pillars that steppped out to a larger diameter near the top. I used a tight fit to the action scews and spacers between their tops and the action, overbedding them with Devcon Plastic Aluminum, after first gluing them in the stock with clear epoxy. There was probably a tenth of an inch of epoxy on top of the pillars. I also milled a wide mortise in the stock between the top of the cutout for the front pillar and the back of the recoil lug mortise to unify those areas when the bedding was done. Later I went back and opened up the screw holes. It worked fine. BTW I understand that cast pillars, of the same material that I bedded with, work as well as any. Any time that you are using a deep section of epoxy it is probably a good idea to go back and skim coat with thinner epoxy to make up for shrinkage since thicker sections shrink more than thin ones.
Click to expand...

I think Kelby is correct as far as poor fitting metal to metal surfaces go.
Very accurate sniper rifles are bedded on solid metal bars that go from stem to stern but they do sometimes have a skim coat of bedding under the action to make it a perfect fit.
A lathe turned pillar fitting against a flat bottomed action is a very neat fit .
 
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I think it depend a lot on the barrel weight & stock strength .
I had a rifle with a heavy barrel that just was not good .
It had been bedded normally several times and nothing changed.
Eventually my engineering capabilities improved and I decided to fit heavy al. pillars front and back straight against the action. Accuracy improved to quite good .
The heavy barrel was not being supported enough by the normal bedding material and stock design . I intend to go full al. rail infuture.
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
Maybe I am wrong but I don't think it matters a fat rats ass if the pillars are cut to fit the action or not... it's a cosmetic thing.. a metal pillar is going to stop stock compression whether it fits perfectly or not... and how tight are you doing the screws...? Enough to distort the pillars? Regardless of the fit I always bed on top as the last thing done. You can successfully pour pillars from fiberglass as well.
Click to expand...

If you are talking about bedding over the pillars , you are correct.
If you are fitting pillars hard against the action they need to fit accurately.
 
Experience shows it works but...

I lost confidence in pillar bedding wood stocks here in Australia because of the extremes of temperature & weather we face across the continent. After experience with some (undoubtedly less than optimally sealed) sporter stocks growing in hot humid conditions, I opted to bed all my serious rifles on alloy bedding blocks. No, I'm not referring to metal to metal V blocks, but solid blocks glued into the stock with the action later bedded onto it. My takedown screws tighten right onto the bottom of block, rather than the stock, although I do use a hardened washer to avoid galling.

I figured that the block would be stiff enough to avoid any tendancy for the stock screws to move relative to each other with weather changes & it seems to have done the job. Of course, it mightn't be the answer where weight is an issue.
 
WELL OK,

This discussion turned up more info than I had hoped for. Thanks for all the input.

I originally got the Idea from Lester Bruno who commented to me one time that the aluminum pillars don't have to contact the bottom of the action as long as the bedding filled in so it got me to thinking. Did you ever hear something and think, "Did I hear what I thought I heard?''

Mr. Valentine, Thank you for your thoughtful input.

Russell B
 
Russell B said:
WELL OK,

This discussion turned up more info than I had hoped for. Thanks for all the input.

I originally got the Idea from Lester Bruno who commented to me one time that the aluminum pillars don't have to contact the bottom of the action as long as the bedding filled in so it got me to thinking. Did you ever hear something and think, "Did I hear what I thought I heard?''

Mr. Valentine, Thank you for your thoughtful input.

Russell B
Click to expand...

You are welcome .
 
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