Oil prices down,

Tim

Tim
Without saying you got it all wrong you indeed got it all wrong.
Watch 60 Minutes tonight as they will expain speculation to you.
You will also see my previous posts were spot on correct down to the last detail.Your mostly wrong comment applies to your posts not mine.
Lynn
 
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Lynn said:
Tim
Without saying you got it all wrong you indeed got it all wrong.
Watch 60 Minutes tonight as they will expain speculation to you.
You will also see my previous posts were spot on correct down to the last detail.Your mostly wrong comment applies to your posts not mine.
Lynn
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Spend less time watching TV and read a freakin book, I'm guessing 60 minutes accidentally got switched over from "Dukes of Hazzard" reruns.
 
Tim

What book would you suggest? I took my facts off of Google like you suggested but you then said they were mostly wrong.
So let me get this straight.Everything Tim says is a fact while everything Google,Michael Masters and 60 Minutes says is fiction.
I don't think it was Dukes Of Hazard reruns more like Cool Hand Luke.
Some men you just can get through too.
LOLROFLMAO.
Lynn
 
The futures market's were set up to allow companies to hedge on future prices commodities. In other words the Users and Producers of commodities could go to the NYMEX or CBOT and trade contracts with a price set in the future, this was done for cost of production planning purposes. The key word here being HEDGE, not speculate. Speculation started creeping into the market in the early 1980's with the advent of computer based trading. Speculation is nothing but gambling that prices will move in one direction or the other. For example at point in the summer of 2008 Goldman Sachs owned contracts for August and September delivery that could never have been delivered because they represented 10 years worth of production. Those contracts had no relation to the actual physical commodity thus it was speculation. Part of the reason the investment banks and hedge funds started chasing commodities, they were looking for returns that could not be had in the stock market.

Until the early 1990's futures contracts that were written by companies or individuals that did not possess the actual commodity or use the commodity for production were taxed a lot higher on any gains that were made trading those contracts. That law was repealed at the end of George Bush I.

sorry for the long post.
David Knapp
 
Speculators!

Oil went from $140+ per barrel down to around $30 rather quickly. Floated around $30 for a while.
Then, the speculators got Israel to blast Gaza and oil zoomed up to $45 in a couple of weeks. It has receeded to around $40, last time I looked.
Russia might have been involved, also, shut off the gas supply to a few counties in their neighborhood. Russian speculators?
 
Jay,Idaho

Jay
70% of the speculators have no means of storing or refining any oil at all.It all started with Enron when they had the oversight and regulation removed.Supply was up and demand was down when oil took it largest single day price jump in history which throws Tim's ludicrous claim of supply and demand right out the window.
DaveMK has got it right just like Google,60 Minutes and Michael Masters.
When you don't keep corporate america under lock and key the corrupt bastards will steal you blind every single time.
Lynn
 
Lynn said:
What book would you suggest? I took my facts off of Google like you suggested but you then said they were mostly wrong.
So let me get this straight.Everything Tim says is a fact while everything Google,Michael Masters and 60 Minutes says is fiction.
I don't think it was Dukes Of Hazard reruns more like Cool Hand Luke.
Some men you just can get through too.
LOLROFLMAO.
Lynn
Click to expand...

For starters History 101. You pay high energy prices mainly because your former idiot govenor Mr. Davis managed to negotiate long term contracts at the all time high price for energy.
 
DaveMK said:
The futures market's were set up to allow companies to hedge on future prices commodities. In other words the Users and Producers of commodities could go to the NYMEX or CBOT and trade contracts with a price set in the future, this was done for cost of production planning purposes. The key word here being HEDGE, not speculate. Speculation started creeping into the market in the early 1980's with the advent of computer based trading. Speculation is nothing but gambling that prices will move in one direction or the other. For example at point in the summer of 2008 Goldman Sachs owned contracts for August and September delivery that could never have been delivered because they represented 10 years worth of production. Those contracts had no relation to the actual physical commodity thus it was speculation. Part of the reason the investment banks and hedge funds started chasing commodities, they were looking for returns that could not be had in the stock market.

Until the early 1990's futures contracts that were written by companies or individuals that did not possess the actual commodity or use the commodity for production were taxed a lot higher on any gains that were made trading those contracts. That law was repealed at the end of George Bush I.

sorry for the long post.
David Knapp
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That's somewhat true but greatly simplified, even in something as simple as a stock option contract there can be a large open interest[ # of contracts] prior to expiration, but the ability to roll forward. Anotherwords even the oil boys could not perpetuate the surge forever.
Don't forget, even hedge funds early on were there to actually hedge, any big market at some point has forces that enter into it to do wonderfull things.
One of the big issues of the hedge boys has been the lack of disclosure which I will bet will be changing big time.
 
Tim Tim Tim

Tim
History 101 are you kidding me? You make a statement about Mr Davis and leave out ENRON !!!!!!!! When you finish History 101 let me know and I'll teach you how to then do a google search on ENRON and Corrruption.
You might learn that ENRON is also tied into the oil speculation sham pulled on the American people.

I do have to admit your post was indeed entertaining but for someone to talk about History 101 without mentioning ENRON to somebody who is actually living in California is very troubling.

I think our educational system is letting some of us down.
Good Luck with your shooting if your a shooter.
Lynn
 
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The only good news in this for the big oils -- example, Exxon Mobil -- is to torpedo the "surplus profits taxes" that some of the legislators recommend.

Hundreds of thousands of Americans are counting on dividend checks from Exxon, Chevron, and other companies to support their retirement. Let's not "dump" on the big oils.

Someone once said, "what's good for Exxon is good for America." I fully agree.

I say, "God bless Exxon."

Or, "victory to Exxon, and confusion to her enemies."
 
There are a few big potato producers, mainly in idaho and Maine. There are a few big potato consumers, like McDonalds, etc. They COULD negotiate buy/sell contracts between themselves and may do so. But who knows what next year's crop will be or how many will be needed by the big users? So, there exists a means for the big users/producers to hedge on their plantings and purchases, the Futures Market. Enter the speculators. They give depth to the market which would not exist if the market were limited to only a few producers and consumers.
This also gives small farmers, those that only plant a couple hundred ac. of spuds and the smaller grocery chains that only buy a few thousand tons of them to hedge their future sales and purchases.
Supply and demand, see Econ 101.

Jay, Idaho
 
Jay,Idaho

Jay
Not all commodities have been ruined by the corrupt few that run americas largest financial institutions,potato futures being one of them.

Enron asked that the oversight be removed from the energy market and then fraudulently ripped off the westcoast.They got there time in court and are no longer with us(as a whole).

They also asked that the oil protections get lifted as part of there energy package and the corrupt employees were gathered up as wall street darlings.They did to the oil industry exactly what they did to the electricty out west and it caught up to them both times now.

Without regulation and oversight it will again repeat itself over and over again.

Again it was an energy deal that did not involve all comodities.Your supply and demand is a good arguement for most commodities but as stated in the 60 Minutes report by countless Financial Strategists is was all speculation that caused the oil problem. You guys can argue supply and demand until your purple but the numbers don't lie.

By the way my relatives on one side of the family lived in Shelly,Idaho just south of Idaho,Falls and raised a small amount of beef cattle and taters right on the snake river until it all went into ranchettes in the early 80's
Lynn
 
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Tim

I gave you a simplified version, because I was not sure how much of this you understand. Also Hedge funds were never interested in hedging commodities, Hedging requires you to use or produce commodities. Hedge Funds were using commodities as a pure speculation play. Tim the basic facts are that hedge funds and the large investment banks were gaming the oil markets.

The whole truth and nothing but the truth, no somewhat true about it.

David Knapp
 
DaveMK

DaveMK said:
Hedge Funds were using commodities as a pure speculation play. Tim the basic facts are that hedge funds and the large investment banks were gaming the oil markets.

The whole truth and nothing but the truth, no somewhat true about it.
Click to expand...

Amen to that brother.
Lynn
 
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