NEWS FROM THE TUNNEL, Barrel Indexing

Seems like maintaining headspace and turning the barrel would eliminate threads.??
What Up, Gene?

Bryan, that's one of the mental blocks I had to overcome to figure this thing out. Yep, it's threaded and tightens up in the usual maner. I use a rear entry action wrench and the bar that came with it. Some of my friends won't watch me tighten a barrel; they say I get 'em too tight. I don't think so.

After studying Vaughn's Chapter 6, entitled, "Barrel-Receiver Threaded Joint Motion" I am quite sure there are many benchrest barrels that are not tight enough. In order to 'freeze' that joint, you must apply more torque than can be obtained with a side port wrench with a short handle.

With my system, I can load a block of twenty cartridges that have been fired in the rifle several times. Re-index the barrel three times, firing five cartridges at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock and detect not the slightest change in feel when the bolt is closed and opened.

Gene Beggs
 
I'm picturing a threaded 'spud' that goes into the action tenon. The inside of the 'spud' is bored to a specific diameter and the barrel would have a non-threaded 'stub' that fits into the 'spud'....probably a guage fit. Locking the barrel in place could be done with a couple of Allen bolts. Headspace would be established by a foward shoulder on the 'stub' end of the barrel so the barrel could be rotated w/o changing the headspace.

Basically a barrel block that threads into the action.

How am I doin', Gene? :D :) ;) -Al


Hi Al

That was one method I considered but abandoned for what I'm using now. The tenon is threaded and tightens up very securely. The accuracy I'm obtaining proves the joint locks up securely. But you're on the right track. :D

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Gene, can you send the answer to 15 funny people who promise not to tell the answer?


James call me on a secure line and give me your mailing address. I'll send you the answer if you promise to tell no one until after the elections are over. If Obama wins, tell no one; the tape will self-destruct.

Later,

Gene
 
Could this be a simple threaded adaptor, with a right hand outside thread, left hand inside thread, and a left hand barrel tenon?
 
I believe Stiller already answered the question as it is the only possible way that I believe it can be done. The only way you can change the orientation with the shoulder butting up to the action face is to use a threaded bushing between the action and the barrel and adjust the bushing to change orientation. But how do you hold the bushing when tightening the barrel?
 
What about a clip system like a RCBS shellholder, just larger and stronger. Then thread up against it to make it tight... Would work in any degree.
 
John VM,

I take it you are talking to me?

I didn't notice mr stiller mentioning l.h. r.h. orientation. As far as holding the bushing, it would be a slight tight fit on the barrel tenon, rotatable with a wrench, perhaps pliars. Being the threads would counter each other, there would not be a great urge for the bushing to rotate while tightening. offsetting, perhaps.

I think mr stiller is thinking all r.h threads, with different tpi. But I don't know this for sure. Perhaps he will say.

Nonetheless, right or wrong, I was thinking this for the onset, even before mr stiller spoke.

It seems not long ago, someone mentioned this (clocking), and also mentioned shims, the problem being, that would still require lathework. At that time, I thought l.h., r.h., but didn't pursue it.

I'm sure mr. stiller is a great man, and has forgotten more than I will ever know, but I assure you, my idea is original.

thank you,
longshooter
 
Bingo!!!!

use a differential thread. Have an in between piece that threads into the action with different threads in the barrel. That way if you turn the barrel .25 turn in, move this same amount out and it gives the same headspace, just a different barrel index spot.


Jerry, you've described it almost to a "T" :D

Inserted in between the action threads and the barrel tenon is a bushing that can be adjusted fore and aft in the action. This makes it possible for the barrel tenon shoulder to contact the receiver face at any position of the clock. Of course, the barrel tenon must be turned down and threaded to match the inside threads of the bushing. I used .940 as the major diameter of the tenon and threaded 28 tpi. Everything is a class 3 fit.

The bushing was made from an old barrel tenon as it already had the correct threads. After indicating the OD, I used a carbide boring bar to open up the ID and single point threaded 28 tpi. The finished bushing looked forever like a pipe nipple but I was quite proud of the workmanship; it fit perfectly.

Using a small end mill, I cut two slots to accept the tool I made to turn the bushing. It worked great from the get go but I soon ran into a problem. The bushing was turning in the action messing up my carefully planned index positions. There had to be a way to lock the bushing in place so it wouldn't move as the barrel was screwed in and tightened. I agonized over the situation for a couple of hours, tried teflon tape which didn't work, and finally decided the best solution was a set screw.

I said I would not make ANY modifications to the action but I was forced to reconsider. In the bottom of the Cobra action, there is a 1/4-28 threaded hole that goes thru the aluminum body but does not penetrate the steel insert. I drilled on thru the steel insert and continued the 1/4-28 threads all the way thru. A small stainless steel set screw now holds the bushing securely in place. Adjustments are quick, easy and secure.

IT WORKS GREAT !! :D :D :D

Two safety concerns came to mind and I would appreciate your input. One concerns the reduced wall thickness of the barrel tenon over the chamber area and the other, the thickness of the bushing between the two rows of threads. I chose 28 tpi for the threads because they do not take up as much depth.

I spent two days in the tunnel testing the system. The first shots were fired with appropriate shields in place for safeties sake. The rifle is a Cobra sporter chambered in 6 Beggs stocked with one of my Ultralite aluminum stocks. Barrel torque was rechecked each time the barrel was re-indexed and never seemed to loosen up. A full case of H4198 behind a 68 grain bullet was averaging 3325 fps with outstanding accuracy. The sweet spot was found on the second adjustment at the six o'clock position.

After a couple of days of testing, I now have complete confidence in the rifle and indexing system and unless problems arise, we will soon be tooling up and producing kits which will require gunsmith installation.

Isn't this an exciting time to be involved in benchrest? :D

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
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Mr Beggs,

Fine job sir.

But with all due respect sir, you told us that all that was required was and action wrench and a barrel vise.

And you said there was no modifications to the action.

respectfully,
longshooter
 
Gene, you are wrong on that one.

both threads cannot be the same or it will not work. What you have is about as good as you are gonna get.
 
pics for the mechanically challenged?

Gene,

Any chance you could post some picks for the mechanically challenged? I think I know what you are staying by I sure would like to see it.

tiny
 
both threads cannot be the same or it will not work. What you have is about as good as you are gonna get.

Jerry, you mean I just got lucky when I chose 28 tpi for the barrel tenon? :D

You are a well educated, experienced engineer and I am anything but;:rolleyes:however, I still believe both threads can be the same. I guess I'll just have to try it and see for myself. That's what I did several days ago when I was told repeatedly that what I was trying to do would not work.

Don't you just love this stuff? :D Just like being a kid again; huh? Nothing like playing with your toys and figuring stuff out. ;)

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Gene, with this new system you have come up with, is there still a need for a tuner?

Oh, by the way, I finally installed the tuner I ordered from you several months back. I will call you next week to get your expertise on adjustments.

Thanks,
Zach
 
just

visualize what happens when that sleeve turns and I think you will see real quick equal tpi will not work.
 
Jerry, you mean I just got lucky when I chose 28 tpi for the barrel tenon? :D

You are a well educated, experienced engineer and I am anything but;:rolleyes:however, I still believe both threads can be the same. I guess I'll just have to try it and see for myself. That's what I did several days ago when I was told repeatedly that what I was trying to do would not work.

Don't you just love this stuff? :D Just like being a kid again; huh? Nothing like playing with your toys and figuring stuff out. ;)

Later,

Gene Beggs


Yup Gene, for your method I can't see that the thread pitch has any affect at all. Just reset the threaded "bushing" insert, set the lock screw and crank the bbl down. Ingenious.

I think I'll just go get some heli-coils and fiddle with indexing on a spare 700 :D

LOL


al
 
Yup Gene, for your method I can't see that the thread pitch has any affect at all. Just reset the threaded "bushing" insert, set the lock screw and crank the bbl down. Ingenious.

I think I'll just go get some heli-coils and fiddle with indexing on a spare 700 :D

LOL


al


Nope.... :eek: turns out I'm lost. I hadn't thought it through yet. I'll back off and draw pictures now.....:eek:

al
 
Gene

Have you ever stopped to think that all of this effort is based on a false premis that you mistakedy stated as fact in your unitial post??..........jackie
 
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