New to Benchrest - Optics Question

[Andy Cross]

I think you mean

On this subject of seeing bullet holes I think locale has some to do with it.....ie, I've seen 6mm holes at 600yds here in WA, and 300 is perty much a gimme.

Locality, air quality, humidity, lighting conditions..... whatever it is, I fully expect to watch my groups form on my 350yd test range and will generally change something if I can't.

This is with good glass.

I chit you not on the glass. Glass can beat power.

I remember once I was testing my 30 cal Hunter Class gun on my 200yd targets using a Leupold 1.5X5 and had trouble distinguishing something on my target so I asked the shooter next to me "Hey, can you look at my group and check out the bullet rip in lower right corner??" He had a 6X24 "Sniper" scope of some sort, a 250.00 tacticool hashed up reticule WunderBanger from Cheaper Than Dirt........ he replied "bullet holes? What bullet holes??"

My 5X Leupold was resolving holes he couldn't see on 24X

This is with good glass.

I chit you not on the glass. Glass can beat power.

I think you mean optical design. Most optical quality glass comes from a very small number of suppliers but is essentially the same no matter who buys from them. But what the manufacturers do with the glass can make a huge difference.

 

[glp]

Generally

This is with good glass.

I chit you not on the glass. Glass can beat power.

I think you mean optical design. Most optical quality glass comes from a very small number of suppliers but is essentially the same no matter who buys from them. But what the manufacturers do with the glass can make a huge difference.

Schott and Ohara, but I guess the Russians are making some good glass. Roland Christen, who owns Astro Physics and makes top quality refractors for the amateur astronomy crowd, says his biggest problem is getting quality glass...apparently even the best producers have issues from time to time. Kind of reminds you of barrels....nothing is a given all the time.

 

[DanSavage]

I also have a NXS Nightforce 8x32 on my 17 pound Light Gun. It is marginal on magnification, but the huge objective gathers a lot of light.

I acquired + 325 lens from Texas State Optical for $30 and made my own magnifier. It boosted the 32x to around 42x.

A +325 is as much as you can go a still be able to focus the reticle.

Here is a picture of it.....

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20674&stc=1&d=1517975602

This is a simple way to get a boost from the very expensive NXS.

That is really neat Jackie, how is that done? Did you specify the diameter and make the sleeve?

I went with the 32x over the 42x mainly because you get more moa come up travel verse the 42.

Most guy's I know are running the NF 42 or the NF competition.

I will be buried with my 8-32x NXS, unless my son claims it. LOL

 

[jackie schmidt]

That is really neat Jackie, how is that done? Did you specify the diameter and make the sleeve?

I went with the 32x over the 42x mainly because you get more moa come up travel verse the 42.

Most guy's I know are running the NF 42 or the NF competition.

I will be buried with my 8-32x NXS, unless my son claims it. LOL

I ordered an optically clear glass lens in +325 from TSO. It was 2 inches in diameter. I put some link on it and scribed a circle the diameter I wanted. I then used a belt sander and carefully ground it down to the diameter I wanted. I then machined the aluminum piece, boring it to the same diameter of the eyepiece with a step to insert the lens in. The split is to allow it to slip on with some tension. The lens is slipped into the aluminum piece against a shoulder. The shoulder holds it firm against the Eyepiece.

Works great. It allows me to use this gosh awful expensive NXS with more magnification.

Be warned. It cuts eye relief in half. In one 600 yard match last year at Pine Valley, my 284 got me right in the nose when I got too close. Ouch!!

Here's a simple pencil drawing.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20682&stc=1&d=1518140606

 

[R.G. Robinett]

Schott and Ohara, but I guess the Russians are making some good glass. Roland Christen, who owns Astro Physics and makes top quality refractors for the amateur astronomy crowd, says his biggest problem is getting quality glass...apparently even the best producers have issues from time to time. Kind of reminds you of barrels....nothing is a given all the time.

In Y2K, [the late] George Myer, his wife, Cheryl, my wife, Donna, and I went to Germany, to confer with two of the worlds prominent optics manufacturers regarding providing the "glass" for a scope we were developing. Both, big dawgs, upon perusing our drawings and specifications, stated something like, "these specifications are for lenses of the highest optical quality, reserved for the finest photographic and scientific instruments" . . . to which, I replied, "how much you speak?" Both refused to provide lenses. George wound up going back to Japan for the glass: shipments were spotty, and never complete. Most people look through the scopes which George did complete (6x), and declare them to be 10X! They were/are actual 6X. Following my tip-over, I forgot more than I ever knew about that stuff - I don't want to get it all mixed up. ;-) RG

 

[DanSavage]

I ordered an optically clear glass lens in +325 from TSO. It was 2 inches in diameter. I put some link on it and scribed a circle the diameter I wanted. I then used a belt sander and carefully ground it down to the diameter I wanted. I then machined the aluminum piece, boring it to the same diameter of the eyepiece with a step to insert the lens in. The split is to allow it to slip on with some tension. The lens is slipped into the aluminum piece against a shoulder. The shoulder holds it firm against the Eyepiece.

Works great. It allows me to use this gosh awful expensive NXS with more magnification.

Be warned. It cuts eye relief in half. In one 600 yard match last year at Pine Valley, my 284 got me right in the nose when I got too close. Ouch!!

Here's a simple pencil drawing.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20682&stc=1&d=1518140606

Excellent work! A bit out of my capabilities though.

 

[Fotheringill]

Andy Cross above hit it on the head. Also-

1. Unless you want to spend an inordinate amount of time finding your target board with a fixed power high magnification scope get a variable powered scope. Sightron makes a good one in 10-50 power. If you need to step up the quality, be prepared to spend $2000+ for the scope.

2. Read the warranty BEFORE purchasing. You might be disappointed in your first choice for a scope. For fixed power, Leupold has a terrific warranty and will repair or replace as long as problem not caused by abuse. On the other end of the spectrum are those makers with a one year limited guaranty to the original owner only and with original proof of purchase.

3. If where the scope is made i.e. here, is important to you, make sure you know that information, as well.

 

[Andy Cross]

Gotta be worth while

In Y2K, [the late] George Myer, his wife, Cheryl, my wife, Donna, and I went to Germany, to confer with two of the worlds prominent optics manufacturers regarding providing the "glass" for a scope we were developing. Both, big dawgs, upon perusing our drawings and specifications, stated something like, "these specifications are for lenses of the highest optical quality, reserved for the finest photographic and scientific instruments" . . . to which, I replied, "how much you speak?" Both refused to provide lenses. George wound up going back to Japan for the glass: shipments were spotty, and never complete. Most people look through the scopes which George did complete (6x), and declare them to be 10X! They were/are actual 6X. Following my tip-over, I forgot more than I ever knew about that stuff - I don't want to get it all mixed up. ;-) RG

If you got the money glass manufacturers will formulate just about anything to any specifications. But if you only want a couple of tons of the stuff the cost goes up exponentially. The most commonly produced types are relatively cheap by comparison. I am thinking your project might not have been worth them doing profit margin wise.

 

[alinwa]

I think you mean

This is with good glass.

I chit you not on the glass. Glass can beat power.

I think you mean optical design. Most optical quality glass comes from a very small number of suppliers but is essentially the same no matter who buys from them. But what the manufacturers do with the glass can make a huge difference.

So you're telling me 'ED' and 'Schott' f'rinstance, are scams......

 

[R.G. Robinett]

If you got the money glass manufacturers will formulate just about anything to any specifications. But if you only want a couple of tons of the stuff the cost goes up exponentially. The most commonly produced types are relatively cheap by comparison. I am thinking your project might not have been worth them doing profit margin wise.

I don't know about profit margin - they wouldn't even quote a price. We showed them our specs (which included SCHOTT glass), asked how much, and they didn't even give a chance to haggle. ;-) RG

 

[Wayne Shaw]

I also have a NXS Nightforce 8x32 on my 17 pound Light Gun. It is marginal on magnification, but the huge objective gathers a lot of light.

I acquired + 325 lens from Texas State Optical for $30 and made my own magnifier. It boosted the 32x to around 42x.

A +325 is as much as you can go a still be able to focus the reticle.

Here is a picture of it.....

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20674&stc=1&d=1517975602

This is a simple way to get a boost from the very expensive NXS.

Jackie, didn't you do the same with the 36 Valdada? Which lense did you use on it, or was it the same lense (meaning the +325)?

 

[Andy Cross]

So you're telling me 'ED' and 'Schott' f'rinstance, are scams......

Why would anyone think ED glass which stands for extra low dispersion glass is a scam. These types of glass revolutionised optical designs.

 

[retired]

And if you cannot see the difference in ed vs no ed,
you need a different game.

Why would anyone think ED glass which stands for extra low dispersion glass is a scam. These types of glass revolutionised optical designs.

 

[alinwa]

wilbur

lol

 

[jackie schmidt]

Jackie, didn't you do the same with the 36 Valdada? Which lense did you use on it, or was it the same lense (meaning the +325)?

Yes I did.

 

[glp]

Andy

Why would anyone think ED glass which stands for extra low dispersion glass is a scam. These types of glass revolutionised optical designs.

it sure did!!! Look through a f/15 classical doublet refractor and compare the view of a bright night sky object in it, vs. a modern Astro Physics ED triplet or Takahashi for chromatic aberration for starts. The glass types used today coupled with new optical designs resurrected and revitalized the use of refractors among amateur astronomers.

AP has something like an 8 year wait period for their instruments, they are that good...but you know this. Quality optics cost....there is no substitute if you are willing to pay...buy once, cry once. --Greg

 

[alinwa]

I useta' think Paul Simon was a cynic, or that he spoke only of a certain segment of society, but time (and threads like this LOL) have taught me that Rhymin' Simon was right.

For the most part, "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

 

[jackie schmidt]

I useta' think Paul Simon was a cynic, or that he spoke only of a certain segment of society, but time (and threads like this LOL) have taught me that Rhymin' Simon was right.

For the most part, "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3LFML_pxlY

 

[alinwa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3LFML_pxlY

In the studio release of 'The Boxer' there's a repetitive crashing beat, it's evocative and powerful.

Paul spent weeks looking for the sound he wanted. He found it in a prison cell. The crashing is the sound of logging chains being flailed against the concrete floor of an old cell in an empty prison.

 

[glp]

Al

I useta' think Paul Simon was a cynic, or that he spoke only of a certain segment of society, but time (and threads like this LOL) have taught me that Rhymin' Simon was right.

For the most part, "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

I saw Simon and Garfunkel at a concert in 1968 at U Maine...it was hands down the most enjoyable live performance I have ever been to. I consider myself lucky to have seen them. Second best was, you're not going to believe this, Jay and the Americans.