New lathe questions (chucks and QC setup)

S

Spot shooter

Guest
Hey guys...

I’m going to finally get a lathe.... a couple things

1). I know I need a 4 jaw chuck... - BUT do I need the 3 jaw to go with it ?

Sounds like a nice thing to have, but a pain to change out, and just how much value is it to have both ?


2). QC - I’m looking at an Aloris set - and after the initial sticker shock I started pondering ... OK which “kit” gets me parts I’ll never use, and which kit will leave me buying extra parts for more spend that I wish I would have gotten..

I.E. - how many tool posts should I get in the QC kit... I’m not sure how they are packaged, but if one has stuff I’ll never use for way more flag it.

Thanks
Spot
 
you will never have TOO MANY tool holders.

set up a tool and leave it in most cases
 
Spot,

I can't imagine life without a 3 jaw chuck for my lathes. Actually, I can...and that is why I would never be without one. In fact, I would call it more or less standard that any new lathe is going to come with a 3 jaw, and likely a 4 jaw. I've bought 4 lathes in my time, and all of them came with 3 jaw chucks. The 3 jaw scroll chuck is the workhorse, and most used chuck on a lathe, in my opinion.

If you get a machine without a 3 jaw, do yourself a favor and get a 3 or 6 jaw adjust-thru chuck. It works like a regular scroll chuck, but can be adjusted similar to a 4 jaw. They are expensive, but worth every penny. I have both Bison and Gator brand 6 jaw adjust-thru chucks, and am very happy with them both. I think Jackie Schmidt once said there is a special place in heaven for the inventor of the adjust-thru chuck, and no truer words have ever been spoken.

Yes...you can use a 4 jaw for anything you could do with a 3 jaw, but that would be a pain-in-the-arse. Life is too short for that. It would be good way to be come proficient with a 4 jaw though...

In re: the tool post, Aloris is outstanding, but they are pricey. Most of the experienced guys around here prefer the wedge style, as opposed to the piston style (If I don't have that right, somebody please correct me). I would say for starters, you would need a holder for turning and facing, one for boring, one for threading, and one for parting. For working on rifles, that would be a good start. Having a pile of tool holders is nice as it's quick, and you're not changing tools out for different applications, but is not necessary for the home shop type. You can buy more as you go along. Having said that, I have about a bazillion tool holders for my tool posts, as it is very convenient.

There are other tool post holders that will more than suffice. I have a KDK...the original quick-change tool post...and they work great. Check FleaBay, Craigslist, etc., and you'll likely turn-up several of them and a far more affordable price than Aloris. Generic KDK tool holders are available through most of the machine tool suppliers.

The nicest tool post holder set-up I've owned was a Swiss Multiflix. The honest-to-God Swiss ones are EXPENSIVE, but I loved mine. Very versatile. Unfortunately, it went down the road with the lathe it was on. There is a company, see attached link, that makes a knock-off that gets very good reviews. Some years ago, Dusty Stevens talked about having these at work and being very happy with them. IIRC, others opined that the company was very easy to work with, as well.

http://www.createtool.com/list.asp?cid=33

Hope this helps,
Justin
 
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QC tool posts are nice, just don't go cheap. Aloris and Dorian are the top US made choices. Of the imports, Phase II ( wedge) is well thought of in the hobbyist community. Most of my tool holders are Phase II and I use them on a Dorian post. They are properly hardened, cleanly machined and finished with ground dovetails and good set screws. I have one or two specialty holders made by DTM ( out of business) but they are the only exception.


RWO
 
Wow..... different strokes :)

I've got two lathes and three 3-jaw chucks and have never used one of the 3-jaws.

For my main lathe I can't imagine ever using one for what I do (barrel work mainly)

My second lathe is set up as a collet machine.

I actually can't imagine any use for a 3-jaw unless I get back into pool cue work.

And I buy the cheapest ChiCom toolholders at 15-18.00 each because the whole POINT of a quick change is...... quick changes.

And the only reason I'll pull a toolbit is to sharpen or repair it. I can leave the height adjustment locked down.

I'd much rather have 40 toolholders ready to go than to re-adjust for a new cutting tool.
 
alinwa said:
Wow..... different strokes :)

I've got two lathes and three 3-jaw chucks and have never used one of the 3-jaws.

For my main lathe I can't imagine ever using one for what I do (barrel work mainly)

My second lathe is set up as a collet machine.

I actually can't imagine any use for a 3-jaw unless I get back into pool cue work.

And I buy the cheapest ChiCom toolholders at 15-18.00 each because the whole POINT of a quick change is...... quick changes.

And the only reason I'll pull a toolbit is to sharpen or repair it. I can leave the height adjustment locked down.

I'd much rather have 40 toolholders ready to go than to re-adjust for a new cutting tool.
Click to expand...

Al,

I was coming at it from a general lathe work point-of-view. I'm always making doo-dads, jigs, fixtures, and left-handed gawddamnits on my lathes, and the scroll chuck, either 3 or 6 jaw, is the workhorse. My last lathe project was machining little feet out of Delrin that screwed onto the bottom of our coffee maker so it would slide around with ease on our kitchen countertops. I love lathes...

If something is square, it usually ends up in the mill. Can't remember the last time I used a 4 jaw for something.

As for barrel work, I completely agree with you. No place for a 3 jaw scroll chuck, unless it is an adjust-thru. Those work great for barrel work. Absent that, it's the 4 jaw for barrel work. I take it that is what you use for chambering and such?

Different strokes is right...I can't imagine not having a 3 or 6 jaw scroll chuck on one of my machines!

Justin
 
6 Jaw set-tru type chuck is the bee's knees for round parts and barrel work. With that, you can pretty much skip the 3 jaw. A 4 jaw independent chuck is needed for square, rectangle and other odd shaped parts/stock.
 
I have a three jaw (came with the lathe) and I use it periodically, and once it's on the machine it gets used until I _need_ the 4-jaw, because I'm lazy. But, the 4-jaw is the staple, and I could get by pretty easily with just it. I use the 4-jaw for most things and only go to the 3-jaw if I'm making multiples of something that won't be hurt by 0.003"-0.005" runout.

I'm with Al on the toolposts - I have a Dorian toolpost and a menagerie of super-cheap, import toolholders. Replace the screws on the imports and they're as good as anything. Figure out how many you need, then double that. Then double that. That'll get you started... Also, I use 95% standard cutter holders, and only a few of the special-purpose holders (parting tool, knurling tool, probably a couple others.)

GsT
 
Rubicon Prec. said:
6 Jaw set-tru type chuck is the bee's knees for round parts and barrel work. With that, you can pretty much skip the 3 jaw. A 4 jaw independent chuck is needed for square, rectangle and other odd shaped parts/stock.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And if you get a good one, the home shop guy won't likely need a collet system if he doesn't mind the inconvenience of putting/taking things in and out of the chuck. I don't mind...I'm not doing production runs. The Bison 6 jaw adjust-thru on my old lathe repeated to about .0002-.0003 on a dowel pin taken in and out of the chuck several times.

Justin
 
do a search on
shars

it is a friend to your wallet.
as was pointed out,
buy a box of replacement set screws.
the originals just suck.
 
the lathe I’m pretty much set on is a PM 1440 - forgot to mention that.
I’m ok crying once and paying a bit more, provided I’m buying what I need...

They of course have a 3 jaw & 4 jaw , I’ll be getting both (kind of resolved that).

I called aloris to see what model I needed, so I’ll be going from there I guess.

Thanks for the reply’s - now I need to go look at 6 jaw chucks.. huh.
 
I got Phase II wedge style tool posts and a bunch of holders for next to nothing on an Enco sale when they were still around. I’d have zero issues going that route again for home or general gunsmithing use. Yes, the set screws need to be replaced.
 
Spot shooter said:
the lathe I’m pretty much set on is a PM 1440 - forgot to mention that.
I’m ok crying once and paying a bit more, provided I’m buying what I need...

They of course have a 3 jaw & 4 jaw , I’ll be getting both (kind of resolved that).

I called aloris to see what model I needed, so I’ll be going from there I guess.

Thanks for the reply’s - now I need to go look at 6 jaw chucks.. huh.
Click to expand...

I'm going to go out on a limb and recommend the 200/BXA size. A 14" lathe is right at the crossroads of 200/BXA & 300/CXA. I have both (if you want to buy a virtually new Dorian CXA, let me know...) and only use the BXA. I feel that I can see the work better and the holders are quite a bit less expensive than the CXA size.

GsT
 
Whoever invented the "set true" scroll chuck deserves a special place in heaven.

I can't amagine doing barrel work without one. A 3-jaw is adequate, a 6-jaw better. It's amazing how little you will use a 4-jaw on a small Lathe if you have a set true scroll chuck.

We use Aloris tool holders on all of our lathes. The wedge style is the most user friendly. Dorian tool holders interchange with Aloris, but the darned things have metric set screws. A minor aggravation.

I would advise you to buy the best you can afford.
 
I have both, can't imagine not having the 4-jaw,. I use the 3-jaw for the "no accuracy" type of jobs. Most of the time the 4-jaw won't hold smaller parts so I go to the other for that.
 
jackie schmidt said:
Whoever invented the "set true" scroll chuck deserves a special place in heaven.

I can't amagine doing barrel work without one. A 3-jaw is adequate, a 6-jaw better. It's amazing how little you will use a 4-jaw on a small Lathe if you have a set true scroll chuck.

We use Aloris tool holders on all of our lathes. The wedge style is the most user friendly. Dorian tool holders interchange with Aloris, but the darned things have metric set screws. A minor aggravation.

I would advise you to buy the best you can afford.
Click to expand...

^^^^^DITTO^^^^ on the "ALORIS" and paired up with a quality 6 jaw.
 
On the Hardinge HLV it usually a 4-jaw or collets. The big 15x65 Clausing has a 12" 4-jaw on 90% of the time. We have 3-jaw and 6-jaw set-tru 's for both lathes but they are gathering dust most of the time. It also keeps the non machinists from using them.
 
If you are using them everyday the Aloris might be justified. For a hobbyist you can buy a Phase 2 and a bunch of tool holders for the same or maybe less money.
I have owned my lathe for about 10 years now and have never mounted the 3 jaw on it.
Here is a picture of my tool holders.
Joe Hynes
 

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With a lot of miscellaneous stuff you make in a lathe, it doesn't make any difference whether its running dead true in a 3 jaw chuck or not where it's being held. Once you start making cuts on it, that part is running true at the cuts especially when the part of the piece that is held in the chuck is going to be cut off anyway. My lathe is a 13x40 and I use an Aloris BXA tool post. Some of the off brand tool holders fit just a little too snugly on it and are difficult to put on. It took me several years before I even bought a 4 jaw chuck for it as I had another one for another lathe that I used when I needed to do anything with a 4 jaw. My 3 jaw and my 6 jaw chucks are adjust true models. They are fairly quick to indicate in a round piece in the lathe. The lathe came with a cheap import 3 jaw chuck, but quality wise it's not a very good chuck. I don't think I've ever even used it. As in everything there are different qualities in 4 jaw chucks as well. Usually, when you buy cheap, you're paying for what you get.
 
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