Buy a really good telephoto lens for your camera and have crosshairs installed. You can hunt all day and not have to drag anything or skin anything....and you have a permanent record of what you coulda done with a rifle. I'm pretty sure you're not going hungry and thinking you prolly have a really good camera.
Need some outa'-the-box thinkers...
- Thread starter alinwa
- Start date
OK! OK! You'se guys are awesome!!!
And here are some rejoinders...
Well, first of all I don't NEED anything about this rig BUT.....as everyone who's tried it knows, shooting silenced bolt-actioned rifles is a recipe for instant wood. Plus, having bowhunted only since the early 80's I'm used to hunting nekkid and no hearing damage. I'm well over a half century and can still hear like my kids..... I LOVE the idea of hunting suppressed. It's becoming the standard here in WA, but subsonic suppressed is just a whole new level of cool...... IME supersonic suppressed is kinda' OK altho the guns are like carrying a stepladder thru the brush but SUBsonic suppressed is just freakycool. Because a hunting rig should be able to carry a lethal payload, and because these big bullets just don't lose energy so 500yds is a worthy goal and because dropping a Volkswagen Beetle onto an unsuspecting target from 500yds out is cool......I dunno, BECAUSE I CAN??? I mean, this isn't a pipe dream, I'm shooting it....
THAT is how different true subsonic suppressed is. Summertime day, in my yard, 5 guys ringing gongs up and down my range out to 450yds, the kids playing and ladies fixing dinner 50ft behind us on the picnic tables....I'm sorry, but THAT'S COOL!
Joe, those ideas actually work! Also the sliding buffer grips and piston stocks of the shotgunners........but here's the problem.
You'll shoot your eye out!
I actually mocked up a shottygun setup with 800gr at 1050, mounted the scope and WHOAHHHH!!!!! Fired it with my head out of the way and the scope nearly hit my ear....
The only way this setup can work is with the scope mounted out "Scout" style like Big Chief Snakefeather useta' write about...chooting wolves and bearsss and stuff running acros't the tundra....
And lastly Wilbur.......I've hunted with a camera......and I gotta' tell ya, I don't care if I ever shoot my own meat ever again....... but dropping 1500lb on something silently, from a quarter mile away....
Well, it's just something I want to be able to do
Cuz God Love 'Murica!!!
Hey, tonite I was out yarnking people out of snowbanks with my 503 Cubic Inch Chubby . . . . . . because I COULD.
And here are some rejoinders...
Funny you should say that. I actually got in on a freak run of 7.5 twist 50's from Mike Rock and I am currently paper patching an 875gr RN w/3 driving bands in the 11" setup. But this does nothing to help the ludicrous counter action of Newton's third law of motion! Just hits me harder/shorter to reach the required velocity.
Well, first of all I don't NEED anything about this rig BUT.....as everyone who's tried it knows, shooting silenced bolt-actioned rifles is a recipe for instant wood. Plus, having bowhunted only since the early 80's I'm used to hunting nekkid and no hearing damage. I'm well over a half century and can still hear like my kids..... I LOVE the idea of hunting suppressed. It's becoming the standard here in WA, but subsonic suppressed is just a whole new level of cool...... IME supersonic suppressed is kinda' OK altho the guns are like carrying a stepladder thru the brush but SUBsonic suppressed is just freakycool. Because a hunting rig should be able to carry a lethal payload, and because these big bullets just don't lose energy so 500yds is a worthy goal and because dropping a Volkswagen Beetle onto an unsuspecting target from 500yds out is cool......I dunno, BECAUSE I CAN??? I mean, this isn't a pipe dream, I'm shooting it....
I guess mainly because this is too easy? It's how everybody else does it for the last hunnerd years but mainly because SUPPRESSED is too cool for words. Picture your wife's car.....you can stand there with it running and carry on a conversation. Now take the exhaust manifold and pipe/muffler off....
THAT is how different true subsonic suppressed is. Summertime day, in my yard, 5 guys ringing gongs up and down my range out to 450yds, the kids playing and ladies fixing dinner 50ft behind us on the picnic tables....I'm sorry, but THAT'S COOL!
Joe, those ideas actually work! Also the sliding buffer grips and piston stocks of the shotgunners........but here's the problem.
You'll shoot your eye out!
I actually mocked up a shottygun setup with 800gr at 1050, mounted the scope and WHOAHHHH!!!!! Fired it with my head out of the way and the scope nearly hit my ear....
The only way this setup can work is with the scope mounted out "Scout" style like Big Chief Snakefeather useta' write about...chooting wolves and bearsss and stuff running acros't the tundra....
And lastly Wilbur.......I've hunted with a camera......and I gotta' tell ya, I don't care if I ever shoot my own meat ever again....... but dropping 1500lb on something silently, from a quarter mile away....
Well, it's just something I want to be able to do
Cuz God Love 'Murica!!!
Hey, tonite I was out yarnking people out of snowbanks with my 503 Cubic Inch Chubby . . . . . . because I COULD.
Some extraneous info as to how I got here.....
I've got a ton of friends shooting suppressed subsonic stuff. 22LR's of course.....300 Blackout.....45ACP's and the mighty 458 SOCOM.....but once you run the numbers you see that the energy levels are down in the dumper. FUN, but dumb.
I don't think most folks here would consider the 1911 45ACP to be "a good hunting round eh!" Load the SOCOM down to 1050 and it's basically a 45ACP.
So that's where the industry is stuck. Subsonic suppressed is FUN, but it's also USELESS.
Subsonic Suppressed and 1500ftlb energy is NOT useless.....and I'm shooting one. It Works.
But it kicks like a Dufflepud.
I've got a ton of friends shooting suppressed subsonic stuff. 22LR's of course.....300 Blackout.....45ACP's and the mighty 458 SOCOM.....but once you run the numbers you see that the energy levels are down in the dumper. FUN, but dumb.
I don't think most folks here would consider the 1911 45ACP to be "a good hunting round eh!" Load the SOCOM down to 1050 and it's basically a 45ACP.
So that's where the industry is stuck. Subsonic suppressed is FUN, but it's also USELESS.
Subsonic Suppressed and 1500ftlb energy is NOT useless.....and I'm shooting one. It Works.
But it kicks like a Dufflepud.
AND..... to elaborate on Joe Woosman's idea. The way the shotgun systems work is to "soften" the recoil by spreading the impulse out....you can't get rid of it so you just spread it out.....think about the thing on your screendoor that keeps it from slamming.
And because it's a shotgun, the loooong recoil stroke is OK. No scope. The one I tried with a scope moved back thru the eye relief....
But the counterweight thing.....really.....I need to do some research on modern shotguns.....
And because it's a shotgun, the loooong recoil stroke is OK. No scope. The one I tried with a scope moved back thru the eye relief....
But the counterweight thing.....really.....I need to do some research on modern shotguns.....
Doug Casner
New member
You might get a 105 or a 155 but the length of the suppresser might be unhandy.
Lee Martin
Active member
Al - have you considered a JD Jones' .510 Whisper? The parent case is .338 Lapua cut to 1.875" long. It'll push a 750 gr A-Max to 1,050 fps. I shot one un-braked and it was mild. With a brake it would be downright pleasant.
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
outside the box
Alinwa-
Howdy !
Some mental masturbation....
Perhaps a " base bleed " type of projectile could be used, to introduce combustion gasses into the suppressor; in-addition to the gasses of the propellant charge ? A large diam hollow-base bullet could hold the base bleed charge. Ignition might be via use of a standard primer, perhaps through a " pin fire " method of striking the primer ? The bullet's " base " could be configured to discharge the gasses, after ignition..... perhaps by use a central " nozzle " that would also accept the firing " pin ". And perhaps w/ inclusion of a lateral gas venting method ?
The pin fire arrangement could be positioned as an inter-stage, of a " staged projectile " stack. The first stage would be the propellant charge.
The second stage would be an " inter-stage ", which would hold the " firing pin " for the upper bleed charge; in a smaller-than-bore diam adapter.
The third stage would then be the bullet w/ " bleed " charge.
Another thought would be to use a second barrel, perhaps in a piston chambering, that is ported to the suppressor. The idea being again, to introduce combustion gasses to the suppressor as a separate event from combustion of the propellant charge. Also... wondering about the need or value of
spacing the bullet above the propellant charge/case, via use of rod; to space out bleed charge ignition and burning from the main charge; even if for micro seconds ?
Hmmm.
With regards,
.357Mag
Alinwa-
Howdy !
Some mental masturbation....
Perhaps a " base bleed " type of projectile could be used, to introduce combustion gasses into the suppressor; in-addition to the gasses of the propellant charge ? A large diam hollow-base bullet could hold the base bleed charge. Ignition might be via use of a standard primer, perhaps through a " pin fire " method of striking the primer ? The bullet's " base " could be configured to discharge the gasses, after ignition..... perhaps by use a central " nozzle " that would also accept the firing " pin ". And perhaps w/ inclusion of a lateral gas venting method ?
The pin fire arrangement could be positioned as an inter-stage, of a " staged projectile " stack. The first stage would be the propellant charge.
The second stage would be an " inter-stage ", which would hold the " firing pin " for the upper bleed charge; in a smaller-than-bore diam adapter.
The third stage would then be the bullet w/ " bleed " charge.
Another thought would be to use a second barrel, perhaps in a piston chambering, that is ported to the suppressor. The idea being again, to introduce combustion gasses to the suppressor as a separate event from combustion of the propellant charge. Also... wondering about the need or value of
spacing the bullet above the propellant charge/case, via use of rod; to space out bleed charge ignition and burning from the main charge; even if for micro seconds ?
Hmmm.
With regards,
.357Mag
Yeahh, My first chambering was/is cut with a lathe and uses the 338L cases cut down. I've included an image of another one based on the 300RUM also. These are the unfired prototypes.
Here's a 300RUM I've been firing, 850gr stuffed bullet in there...
I tried to post some more using the 338L case (they look cooler) but ran out of room. But they're essentially similar, even up to the 378 and 460WBY cases blown out to the belt.
I don't find them pleasant. Here's the brake......it doesn't touch it
And this brake is cut radially which increases the surface area
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Cool brake, Al..especially the radial ports, but I think you'll find the vast majority of the work is done in the first inch of the brake, from the muzzle. You might be able to use progressively larger holes as you move away from the muzzle, to hold back some energy as the bullet passes each row to make it work "longer". It'd probably take some surprisingly small holes near the muzzle to get it to hold much pressure back, though.
Not for me...but neat project, nonetheless. Good luck
Not for me...but neat project, nonetheless. Good luck
I built a sled and I test brakes, I've tried every configuration I can find, when I see a new one, I try it. Believe me, this brake will stop ANYTHING brakeable.
I don't believe the 750 will expand (altho it starts out as a half-inch hole!) hence the custom bullet molds and my propensity for playing with pure lead
On the subject of ballistics....sdean mentions "cannon like" which is true BUT, once you start shooting over 500yds you find out that EVERYTHING is kinda' cannon-like. The term "flat-shooting" becomes meaningless beyond 4-500yds so in real life it's just as easy to hit something with a slow bullet as a fast one. Even with the 338 Lapua you missguesstimate your yardage by 35yds at 1000 and you MISS an animal. You'd still hit a guy (vertical mass) which is why military-style ranging works so well but hitting a deer (horizontal mass) requires water-table ranging and accuracy.
And shooting at long range with these slow cannons is doubly fun when you can shoot, turn around and lift a finger..... "wait for it....." then BONGG !!! the sound comes back 3-4-5seconds later
And shooting at long range with these slow cannons is doubly fun when you can shoot, turn around and lift a finger..... "wait for it....." then BONGG !!! the sound comes back 3-4-5seconds later
mwezell
Mike Ezell
Been there, done that. I'm passed that phase, but I don't doubt your brake works well. I think you'll agree that in an ideal world, all of the ports and baffles would work near equally and utilize every square inch of brake possible, most efficiently.
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Al what is time of flight to 500yds? And bullet drop from a 100yd zero to 500yds? The Barnes bullets have the answer to a bullet opening up at low velocity I assume it is the depth of the cuts in the bullet tip? If thats the case it may be easier to get one of those to open than a lead bullet. but at the speed you are sending them lead would be in its glory. I was intrigued with the powdered tungsten bullets that weigh more than lead of the same size and shape. Could this have an advantage to slow long range flight?
pikespeakgoat
NRA4Life
Seen this on another forum, a guy shooting the 510 Whisper with 750 grain bullets but doesn't list velocity, seems pretty quiet and not too much recoil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C6sDuaWH04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C6sDuaWH04
OK..... a couple items. TOF (Time Of Flight) is about 1.5 seconds to 500yds with the 750 A-Max and it's actually similar for the bigger lead slugs. Drop I have no idea, it's irrelevant to me. What IS important is drift and these badboys have almost zero wind drift.
The wind drift thing becomes really important after 400 and these subsonics will stay on any game animal to 400+ yards with ZERO wind allowance! Over a second in the air and a wind allowance of 8-9 inches! It's freaky easy to hit stuff once it's ranged.
I can't speak to the powdered tungsten. I bet they're expensive....I bought the moulds so's I can do my hundreds of rounds of testing with "free" lead bullets as it is. I only use the 750's once I've got something worked up.
For instance, using the 338 Lapua case I worked up to 1050fps using 14 different powders from Bullseye/2400 class stuff clear up to H1000/Retumbo
I haven't yet tried the cheerios powders as these cases are too small.
Yup....that's the thing. They are wikkid easy in those big clunky two-handed two-ton tacticool setups but that's just not my deal. You cut the weight in half and the paradigm shiffftssss
Even at 13lb they're not bad (physics) but you get 'er down under 10lb and look out...(again, physics LOL) more weight=less felt recoil EVERY time....
The funny thing is, the typical tacticool weight for 50BMG's is 26-28lb......I've fired 13lb 50BMG's that kick LESS than that. It's all in the brake and making it do it's thing.
I am so out to lunch on this, I would have guessed that bullet drop would be the problem, not recoil. 1.5 seconds time of flight is not bad at all. I remember shooting my first elk (only elk for that matter) it was with a 338 win mag. I had practiced for months sighting in and off hand shots, I was 35 and in decent shape and if I shot more than 18-20 rounds in a session it was too much. When I shot the elk I never felt a thing, or heard a thing. I know this doesn't solve your problem. Any of the devices that have been mentioned to reduce recoil add weight. I saw a pack years ago designed to carry a heavy tactical rifle that had a place to center the rifle in the middle of the harness and close to your back with the pack portion over the rifle. Maybe a heavy rifle and a better way to carry it till you can work out the recoil?