Need Help With a Tuner

[Chism G]

Tuners

Thanks for the responses Jackie and Mike. Many years ago,I tried my hand at Rimfire benchrest. The rifle I bought(Used) was a Suhl. It came with a fancy tuner on the barrel,don't remember who made it,but it had numbered settings. That was some time ago. I remember an article,that was published in precision shooting magazine(Don't remember the Author) that went into a great deal of detail about how to set a Rim Fire tuner. The Author recommended a number setting on the tuner that would work with all Popular make Rim Fire ammo used in competition in those days.

I can't remember what that number setting was,but it actually worked. That setting would get you close to a competitive tune with your Rim Fire ammo.

I've seen some pretty impressive scores shot with those Rifles equipped with those Tuners.


Glenn

 

[mwezell]

Thanks for the responses Jackie and Mike. Many years ago,I tried my hand at Rimfire benchrest. The rifle I bought(Used) was a Suhl. It came with a fancy tuner on the barrel,don't remember who made it,but it had numbered settings. That was some time ago. I remember an article,that was published in precision shooting magazine(Don't remember the Author) that went into a great deal of detail about how to set a Rim Fire tuner. The Author recommended a number setting on the tuner that would work with all Popular make Rim Fire ammo used in competition in those days.

I can't remember what that number setting was,but it actually worked. That setting would get you close to a competitive tune with your Rim Fire ammo.

I've seen some pretty impressive scores shot with those Rifles equipped with those Tuners.


Glenn

Glenn, the biggest difference I see with rimfire is the ammo testing to find a good lot and a lot that is good at a given tuner setting. ..for those that never move the tuner. Most of those folks, not only test for good ammo, but also go to the line with different lots of ammo...Not really much different than finding a good load and going to the line with that load and one or two more that are a few tenths of a grain on either side of the load you hope to shoot, in cf. Changing ammo is no different than changing the load to keep up with conditions, imo. Either way is still a tuning method...as is turning a tuner.

 

[Chism G]

Glenn, the biggest difference I see with rimfire is the ammo testing to find a good lot and a lot that is good at a given tuner setting. ..for those that never move the tuner. Most of those folks, not only test for good ammo, but also go to the line with different lots of ammo...Not really much different than finding a good load and going to the line with that load and one or two more that are a few tenths of a grain on either side of the load you hope to shoot, in cf. Changing ammo is no different than changing the load to keep up with conditions, imo. Either way is still a tuning method...as is turning a tuner.

Mike..when I shot Rimfire,I couldn't afford to buy but one lot of ammo at a time. I fiddled with that tuner a lot,trying to make that expensive ammo work. The tuner set on The magic number,written about in PS magazine, seemed to work when I got lost fiddling with numbers on the tuner.



Glenn

 

[mwezell]

Mike..when I shot Rimfire,I couldn't afford to buy but one lot of ammo at a time. I fiddled with that tuner a lot,trying to make that expensive ammo work. The tuner set on The magic number,written about in PS magazine, seemed to work when I got lost fiddling with numbers on the tuner.



Glenn

Let me guess...185? As I said, I won't argue with anything that someone finds to work for them. IME, there is always more than a single magic number..if you adjust a mark at a time, I think you'd find more of them. That has been my experience.

 

[Chism G]

185

Let me guess...185? As I said, I won't argue with anything that someone finds to work for them. IME, there is always more than a single magic number..if you adjust a mark at a time, I think you'd find more of them. That has been my experience.

Mike..thats it... 185. It was printed in Big Bold letters(Header) at the top of the page in PS magazine. Some interesting details in that article.

I am not knocking tuners. I know people that know how to make em work. I'm not one of those people. I'm Way too impatient. 185 worked with my Rimfire tuner,with several lots of ammo. Both tested and untested. If I had spent more time with my tuner, i probably could have found other settings that worked just as well. I haven't thrown the towel in just yet. I intend to play some more with tuners. They're kinda fun.


Glenn

 

[Gene Beggs]

Atta' boy Richard

All I can say is if you are willing to devote ALOT of time on this stuff, they can work wonders.
A lot of the variables have been mentioned here. The big question is, Do you know what to do with them? I go to the line with complete confidence that I can find the tune quickly and keep it there. Most of the time I don't even shoot before the match starts.

Richard Brensing

Richard, I'm proud of you man! You've put in the time it takes to find out what tuners do, how much to move them, which way to go as conditions change etc. You richly deserve the success in competition you've had in recent years. Hope to see you in Phoenix.

Gene Beggs

 

[Richard]

Thanks Gene

Looking foward to Phoenix. It has so warm here it feels like I am already there!!

I have wore out alot of really good bbls to learn this stuff!! I had several PM's about how I didn't have a clue what I was talking about so I decided to delete everything I had written. I guess BR central is not the place for me to talk about this stuff. People that really know me also know I do really test everything to the inth degree.

I always enjoy our visits!!

Richard

 

[jackie schmidt]

I finished making up 160 new cases, so I plan on pre- loading for the upcoming Crawfish at Tomball.

I tuned my barrel with my tuner Sunday, and it stayed in tune all day, using my pet load that works reasonably well in all of my barrels.

I pre-load for score matches all the time. This will be the first time I have attempted pre-loading for a Two Gun Group Match. I can sit in the comfort of my living room, watching TV, with my big Denver Lab scale and measure each charge exact.

We will see what happens.

 

[jackie schmidt]

I finished making up 160 new 6PPC cases, so I plan on pre- loading for the upcoming Crawfish at Tomball.

I put a proven barrel on my LV and tuned it with my tuner Sunday, and it stayed in tune all day, using my pet load that works reasonably well in all of my barrels.

I pre-load for score matches all the time. This will be the first time I have attempted pre-loading for a Two Gun Group Match. I can sit in the comfort of my living room, watching TV, with my big Denver Lab scale and measure each charge exact.

We will see what happens.

 

[Gene Beggs]

Looking foward to Phoenix. It has so warm here it feels like I am already there!!

I have wore out alot of really good bbls to learn this stuff!! I had several PM's about how I didn't have a clue what I was talking about so I decided to delete everything I had written. I guess BR central is not the place for me to talk about this stuff. People that really know me also know I do really test everything to the inth degree.

I always enjoy our visits!!

Richard

Richard, I've been putting in a lot of test hours in the tunnel lately, burning up lots of good bullets in two good barrels with exactly the same, proven load in my 6 Beggs cartridge, changing nothing but tuner setting in .001 increments.

Mike Ezell has certainly opened my eyes to the fact that I have been making way too big of adjustments. I'll report my results here on the forum.

I'm so sorry to hear you deleted your posts here on BR Central. There are those of us who hang on your every word. Ignore the discouraging PM's you have received. It's been my experience in life that when the experts begin to ridicule your new discoveries and put you down it's because they can't stand to see anyone else,, well,,,, you know what I mean. I often have trouble putting what I'm thinking into words. I have complete faith in you and what you say. Keep up the good work and best of luck this year in the matches.

Sincerely

Gene Beggs

 

[jackie schmidt]

Looking foward to Phoenix. It has so warm here it feels like I am already there!!

I have wore out alot of really good bbls to learn this stuff!! I had several PM's about how I didn't have a clue what I was talking about so I decided to delete everything I had written. I guess BR central is not the place for me to talk about this stuff. People that really know me also know I do really test everything to the inth degree.

I always enjoy our visits!!

Richard

Richard, if shooters decided to leave this Web Site every time another shooter disagreed with them, there would be nobody left in short time.

 

[Gene Beggs]

Atta' Boy for Mike Ezell

Mike, thank you for sharing with us your knowledge and experience with tuners! Your well written and factual posts finally convinced me I should take another look at the way I've been making adjustments. It's been an eye opener.

I've been hard at work in the tunnel for days, experimenting with linear adjustments of .001 using the same, proven load and bullets in good barrels, changing only the tuner setting. So far my results mirror exactly what you have been saying all along. I'm still testing and will report my findings here on the forum.

At this time, it looks like the only change I'll make to my tuner design is engraving the face with smaller increments. I'm happy with my choice of 28 tpi. Using Rod Brown's decal, each mark moves the tuner .001 along the barrel. I also have an engraved design that divides the dial in hour and half hour increments resulting in .0015 movement per mark. It's easier to read and I'm testing now to see if it is small enough.

Keep up the good work. You've advanced state of the art in tuners immensely.

Sincerely and with best regards

Gene Beggs

 

[mwezell]

Mike, thank you for sharing with us your knowledge and experience with tuners! Your well written and factual posts finally convinced me I should take another look at the way I've been making adjustments. It's been an eye opener.

I've been hard at work in the tunnel for days, experimenting with linear adjustments of .001 using the same, proven load and bullets in good barrels, changing only the tuner setting. So far my results mirror exactly what you have been saying all along. I'm still testing and will report my findings here on the forum.

At this time, it looks like the only change I'll make to my tuner design is engraving the face with smaller increments. I'm happy with my choice of 28 tpi. Using Rod Brown's decal, each mark moves the tuner .001 along the barrel. I also have an engraved design that divides the dial in hour and half hour increments resulting in .0015 movement per mark. It's easier to read and I'm testing now to see if it is small enough.

Keep up the good work. You've advanced state of the art in tuners immensely.

Sincerely and with best regards

Gene Beggs

Gene, I'm very much honored to receive such compliments from you. As I've told you, I'm just a shooter who enjoys trying things and proving them out..for better or worse.
I have always contended that barrel stiffness, tuner weight, thread pitch, and tuner location(behind or beyond muzzle), all have an effect on how much movement is needed to get the desired effect. Therefore, I try to refrain from stating as fact, that any amount of adjustment is perfect for all tuner designs and guns.

I am pleased to hear that you are testing what I have found to be true, IME, and hope that in some small way, it helps to further the quest for better accuracy..specifically improved agging ability, as that seems to be the area of greatest improvement tuners offer.

 

[Jerry H]

The rimfire shooters have been accustomed to .001 increments for many years. Must be a reason.

 

[mwezell]

The rimfire shooters have been accustomed to .001 increments for many years. Must be a reason.

Jerry, I find that to be very much dependent upon who you ask. Many I've talked with claim a full revolution is needed with a stand HH tuner. Of course, this has not been my experience and I've tried to convey that to some, but I won't argue with anyone that feels like they have a system that works for them.--Mike

 

[Jerry H]

True enough, but that depends on what a shooter feels is good enough. Besche is a tuner twister and he has dominated the outdoor ARA RF. Very difficult to tell A is better than B in RF especially when a significant number of shots are compared.

 

[JerrySharrett]

And too for the rimfire crowd is the K C Young tuner which is simply a micrometer caliper thimble with its spindle attached to the barrel with an aluminium bracket. Looking at this tuner installed one would not think it would have any effect, but with just a small amount of movement, and top quality ammo, can make a significant change in performance.

.

 

[mwezell]

Slowly but surely, progress is being made. There are those that have obviously got it all figured out but the rest of us are making steady progress.

As Jackie Schmidt has often said, "Competition, active participation in formal matches is what separates truth from theory and wishful thinking about any piece of equipment."

Centerfire tuners have been slow to catch on but a number of top shooters have had great success with them for years. The names Jackie Schmidt, Gene Bukys, Charles Huckeba, Richard Brensing, Rod Brown, Ralph Stewart and Daryl Loker come to mind immediately. They have all invested the time, money and effort to learn how to use their tuners. Many have tried tuners of various designs and quickly gave up and discarded them saying, "Too much trouble; just adds another variable." Shooters like Mike Ezell and Rod Brown have been working hard to dispel that myth.

IMHO, tuners are the future of centerfire group and score shooting. With that in mind we need to work toward standardizing as much as possible so we are all on the same page. One area that comes immediately to mind is the different threads in use. Many tuners use 32 tpi, others 36 and even 40 tpi, I chose 28 tpi for mine. Most of us have always referred to adjustment increments in terms of quarter, eighth, half and full turns etc., confusing; huh? Now, there's a better way. If we all begin referring to adjustments in thousandths of an inch, we will have achieved at least one standard for all tuner designs. Mike or Rod can do a better job explaining this than I can. Guys? Help me out please.

To begin with, my 28 tpi thread moves the tuner .036 per revolution. Placing 36 marks on the outer perimeter works great! Regardless of how many marks it takes with your thread we can all easily make the same .001 adjustment by moving the tuner one mark. Sorry guys, writing is not my forte.

Later,

Gene Beggs

Gene, I agree that much discussion has taken place that was pretty much apples and oranges because of the different variables of tuner design, thread pitch, tuner weight and location, as well as barrel stiffness. Rather than stating HV or lv..or similar, I think it would also help if we spoke strictly in terms of barrel stiffness. Dan Lilja has a barrel stiffness calculator on his sight that assigns a stiffness number based on dimensions of the barrel. This number would do away with the huge variable of barrel stiffness being different in tuner discussion where a method of adjustment does not necessarily apply to any and all barrels nor tuner designs. We just need to make sure that we're on the same page when giving advice about tuner usage.

 

[CubCouper]

I've promised Audrey another article for Precision Rifleman magazine... this one will describe how I analyzed my tuner settings in an Excel spreadsheet with instructions for anyone to do the same. Probably fit it into an issue later this season.

Rod

 

[markharp]

Richard

I don't think ppl should pay any attention to Richard's posts. He did not win every match he shot in last year. He came in second several times.