Neck turning - 1 pass or 2?

T

tiny68

Member
Rookie question again. Back to neck turning. I am making some 6mm Rem and 6mm Rem Ackley brass from 7x57 mm RWS brass I got. After I neck it down into 2 steps, the neck is really thick. I mean really thick. I need to turn them from well over 0.020" down on 0.013" for my 0.274" neck. I did several with my K&M tool turning by hand. Kind of hard to turn. Case keep slipping. When I attached the case holder to my drill and did a couple the K&M tool got so hot I couldn't hold it after 5 cases. Is this normal? Is there an advantage or disadvantage to taking off the neck in one pass?

Thanks again guys, tiny
 
reading the reviews there on the picture site reminded me of something......... this iris-style caseholder shown may need some extra parts. Make SURE that the one you order has the mandrel stem with it, it's not shown in the picture. It's been a while since I ordered them. It might be worth a call to Lee.

al
 
Tiny, if he still has any, Ron Hoehn had some carbide mandrels for a K&M cutter that rocked... (actually, I have two...). They were long enough on the back end to chuck into something, so you swing the cutter in your chuck instead of swinging the brass.
 
wilbur is rite

turn most of the e-tra metal before necking down...that way the neck is more concentric before and during the necking operation...then when they are the smaller cal. dia. they will allrady be uniform all the way around ....rather than look like the bottom donut in the box ...and then have to turn terribly crooked and out of round necks!!!!.....Most of the time when going down on the cal size I will find the rite thikness by trial and error to give the rite wall and just size em down and "viola" there u are....or u culd do a tiny-weenie clean up cut down to the shoulder.....OBTW ,,by doing the turning before necking down the donut is practically eliminated because the point that the wall thikness changes is around the corner and the neck meat has become shoulder meat....that is the way I have been a doin em since the 60's....Roger
 
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Take it in two passes, this is where having two tools preset will pay in time saved and will make you much happier.

If you go with the Great Pumpkin's neck turner, heat is never a problem. It is just to big of a heat sink to be a problem. Love his tools.
 
I'm cutting the same amount of brass from my cases and I do it in one pass and I can do 40 cases an hour.

It only took two pieces of brass for me to learn the KM tool gets hot and that heat causes the tool to expand and give inconsistent results from one piece to another.

When turning necks I keep a large bowl of ice water next to loading block, I use a 3/8 drill motor to turn the cartridges and I use my other hand to hold the cutting tool.
With the cutting toll submerged in the water I lower the case onto the tool and start turning the brass. the water lubes the case, keeps it cool and the shavings are usually one solid piece.

When the tool bottoms out on the case I raise it out of the water and slide the tool back and forth along the brass to make sure the necks are extra smooth.

I use a Sinclair neck thickness gauge to check for variance but there never is any. It works like a charm every time.

Obviosuly you need to be certain you keep from submerging the drill in the water and electricuting yourself. DUHH!!


Rich
 
alinwa said:
I keep the tool in a pan of water and drive the case with a teeny drill press laid on its side and a caseholder like this....
al
Click to expand...
OK, al,

The water cooling is a dream, but ....

How should I service my K & M turner after I'm finished? Dewatering spray? Strip the bugger (Nooooooooo!)

Thanks, John
 
John Kielly said:
OK, al,

The water cooling is a dream, but ....

How should I service my K & M turner after I'm finished? Dewatering spray? Strip the bugger (Nooooooooo!)

Thanks, John
Click to expand...

I own 7 different neck turners including K&M. I use them all with water. I use a heavy "engine assembly oil" or STP or Power Punch or somesuch for my lube and I apply the lube by pouring a thin film of it onto a plate (lots of cases) or just into the lid (a few cases) so when I dip the caseneck I get a thin ring of lube at the casemouth. I dip each case prior to mounting it into the case-spinner.

During use it sorta' migrates down the mandrel and seems to oil everything on the turning tool but the real fix is that after usage I go over and blow out the tooling with the air hose then set the stuff out to dry. I've never gotten so much as a speck of rust on anything including the three turners which incorporate micrometers. If I lived by Da' Sea I guess the big concession I'd make for long term storage is to just hose the thing down with oil after blowing it out, or store it in oil. It takes just a minute to wipe it off and blow it out. I have a lathe and a mill and a complete automotive fixit shop here, everything dripping in lubricants, so I guess to me it's just a matter of grabbing some drippy part or tool, leaning over the trashbasket with an airhose to blow it out, wipe with paper towel and go wash the hands in the sink, with tool in hand. Blow it off to dry it and go to work.

No, I do not tolerate slippery oily hands, nor do I disassemble stuff to clean (EVER) except under extreme duress (thing stops working) but I am set up with a large laundry sink to easily clean stuff off.

So basically, "blow it out with the airhose when finished" is my answer......

al
 
The trick here is to make it EASY...... I use a PAN of water with a liddle metal basket I stole from The One Who Keeps Me Sane. I have no idea'r what it's for but it holds my neckturners in the perfect place, the perfect pitch for the perfect grip. The cakepan is so's I can have enough water (1liter??) to absorb a ton of heat yet shallow enough that I don't get my dear pinkies wet......
 
I found that if you fill a Berger .30 cal 100 pieces yellow box with just so much water, you can set the K & M turner mandrel down with the adjuster knob lipping the box edge so the bottom end gets wet up to the cutter blade. Of course, fumble fingers knocked her in more than occasionally trying to lift her out.
 
I turn mine in one pass. On quick and back out slow. One pass. I don't worry about heat to much. I separate mine "if there is any variation" into batches, that I will use for each barrel. Yep, I measure ever single case. I guess that's the only draw back. lee
 
I used to do the water deal. Used a bucket of ice water. Eventually shifted to setting the turner on a gallon ziploc back of ice between turnings. Used STP/Mobil 1 mixture. Finally quit it all, went back to just being patient, going slow, taking two passes and Imperial wax for lube. You can be too fussy about turning necks. 1/10 of 1/10 isn't real and it's not going to be there after you shoot it a couple of times, anyway.
 
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My 6mm PPC features a .262 neck and I turn those in two passes with 2 different turners. For the Dasher (.269) and the .30 BR (.330), I use only one pass. I do as Lee stated fast in and slow out. I use a variable speed drill and a K& M case holder. In the picture below, I am going out on the second cut. Good shooting.....James
rveq2d.jpg
 
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JamesM you might want to try this from Midway, real cheep and is a lot faster and spins cases a lot truer. Make sure you also purchase the part that goes in the drill there separate!


lee-zip-trim-case-trimmer-universal-3-jaw-chuck-case-holder

Joe Salt
 
About the heat thing...... Boyd Allen recently brought up a valid point. If you turn slowly, like with a drill, there's very little heat buildup. I turn fast, using a laid down drill press..... I need cool tools.....

I turn FAST because neck turning is a 3-6 part operation for me. I turn, one pass or two, and trim and chamfer in-and-out and polish with steel wool and check to see is the end all soft and perfect......all at one go.
 
I use a K&M tool, held in my hand, and the caseholder chucked in my mini lathe. If more than .005" needs to be cut, I prefer two passes, I have never had to remove as much as the OP talks about.

I have never used water. I turn at very low speeds, probably no more than 200 rpm, holding the K&M tool in my hand and it never gets too hot to hold. I would not submit the case necks or the tool to that kind of heat.
 
Bottom line is that the case necks really, really, really need to be consistent. Not from an accuracy standpoint but from a usage standpoint. I would challenge anyone to display the accuracy deal but will not question the overall use of the cases in terms of when you need to go to a smaller bushing for sizing. Remember that the cases need to have a grip on the bullet to effect some sort of seating depth. If they are different, you'll have a problem deciding when to go to a smaller bushing. That in itself is not a "real" problem but mentally it becomes a huge problem.

The bottom line is that your cases need to be within half a thousandths less then the chamber size all around - or more. Accuracy wise it doesn't matter if they are more but I don't recommend less unless you measure them regularly. Measuring them at the recommended thickness is good as well but you don't need to measure them as much. Frankly, case necks get thicker more than they get thinner and you need to keep an eye on the thickness lest you run into a "bigger case than chamber" kind of deal.

If you turn the necks and they are different thickness but will "fit" the chamber, by all means shoot them without reservation. In time, you'll see what I'm trying to say and the lesson will be learned. You can, and many do successfully, turn up a new batch for every match.

BTW - If you'll pay attention, the guys that win regularly have enough money to buy enough barrels to find one that works. How they turn their necks may not have anything to do with their success...I could be wrong...
 
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