NBRSA & Matches

Doug Penttinen

Doug Penttinen

"TESTED TEXAS TUFF"
:confused: Well here I go again and in writing this I am only trying to voice my opinion and to make a point without a lot of turmoil toward the NBRSA or anyone affiliated with the organization. I am only speaking on behalf of myself since it is not a good idea to speak for others on this forum..

I have only been shooting bench rest and a member of the NBRSA for about 10 years. The first major match I loaded up and went to was the "CRAWFISH" over in Louisiana and man was that some serious fun. I knew then I was hooked on bench rest from that moment on. I did not do well but 2 things happened. I had a blast and shot a small group that lasted for 2 relays but OMG it was great...Seems as though there may have been 3-4 relays at the match. Good food, friendship and people willing to give a new shooter a hand...

After that it moved to Tomball, Texas and the next couple of years still produced alot of shooters from near and far...I understand that you loose shooters from health and other reasons but from what I see the matches are no where near what they were.. I'm talking 2 only 2 relays for a big GCR register'd match like the "CRAWFISH"...The interest and the promotion is all but gone...I might be wrong but I think the shooters would pay a little extra to get the excitment back to the match for a Saturday night of food and gatehering at the range like it used to be...People have and are loosing interest in the matches. We practice on Friday shoot on Saturday, go to dinner, go to bed, shoot on Sunday and go home...We need to bring it "BACK" or it will all be gone. The "Crawfish" used to BE HUGE...

I even here people saying we should change the name of the "CRAWFISH" to anything other than the "CRAWFISH"... This goes for all matches in every region... I understand that we are on hard times everywhere thruout the country and money is the key to everything and what makes the world go around...There are still many of us who really enjoy this sport and going to the matches... If we are willing to build a gun, by all the associated items that go with shooting bench rest then why not go a little extra to make the matches interesting and worth the drive..You have to "WANT TO ATTEND"..

Each year when the schedule is set and mailed out you want to feel some excitement of the upcoming year once you get that schedule..

Take for instance Russell Mathews is the match director at Tomball this year. He has taken it upon himself to go to the Comfort Suites and try to work out some good pricing for us shooters for all the matches this year down their. He has gotten the room rates cut down to a very moderate price compaired to what we paid last year...But yet he is having a hard time filling up 20 rooms... I commend Russell for doing this to help the shooters and the $$$ to get us their to shoot these matches...

Just think: For all of you who make and sell us bullets, guns, barrels, powder, actions and scopes how much is your business off over the years...

I am only hoping this generates some kind of ideas through out the Bench Rest community...From the top down and may everyone have a great shooting year

To All
Keep-um-small :cool:
 
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Doug, the only reason that we at Tomball took over the Crawfish was simple, nobody in Louisianna was willing to put on a Group Match after The closing of the old Hub City Club. The Death of Louis Langelese was really the beginning of the end, as he was the man that ram rodded everything, along with help from Francis and Marcy Lyons.

The first few Matches, we did have food at the range on Saturday, but in all honesty, the attendance was 1/2 what it was in Louisianna.

If we had not taken on the resposibility of putting on the Match, nobody would have and it would have died.

Tomball has discussed trying to do things the way it used to be, having a "cocktail" party the night before, having a dinner at the range on Saturday, but in all honesty, the interest simply does not seem to be there. There is nothing more discouraging to a bunch of hard working club members than to really put forth a effort, and nobody shows.

If you notice, every Match in the Region is down on attendence. The first Buffalo Shoot I attended was in 1995. They had over 80 shooters. Last year, they had a tad over 30. I was not even able to shoot one of the Bluebonnet Matches in Newbraunfels because it was "sold out". They have about the same attendance now as we do at The Crawfish.

True, a bunch of us are getting old. You want to know the truth. Right now, I enjoy just driving over to a range within 200 miles, shooting a one day match, and coming home. That working all day Friday, driving all night, shooting both days, and then having to drive back Sunday night and be back at work Monday Morning just does not seem that enjoyable anymore. Heck, you just flat get worn out.

I have always enjoyed going out to Midland on the 4th of July, because we had a three day week end, and I could count on my Wife and Daughter to go. But this year, they have moved the Match to the next week end. That means I will not go, heck, I can't go.

I had 44 shooters at our first Club Match at Tomball last week end. Heck, everybody seemed to have a more enjoyable time just shooting a laid back Score Match than most of the Registered Matches we have. Maybe there is a message there.

I do not have a lot of answers. We just do the best we can, and that is all that can be expected of anyone. .........jackie
 
Maybe it the way the organization thinks also. An agreement allowing IBS members to shoot in those matches might help attendance. Ibs IBS allowes NBRSA member to shoot in their matches./ Your looking for ideas well heres one.
 
Hey Jackie

Well number one a club match does not run you $100.00 and your right it is laid back....As I mentioned I am aware of all regions being down and there has to be more than the reason of no interest. If this is the case then bench rest will be a thing of the past and you might as well start selling off all your equipment...

Maybe someone can chime in and answer this question.. Why does the matches need to cost $50..a day. Does the range really loose that much money in 2 days of shooting.. I just very well might be looking at this wrong but when I have been to some of the matches I have not seen anybody other than BR shooters shooting . I have not seen JOE Blow come to the range and want to shoot on our match days. Granted it takes money to run the match and it seems that alot of it goes to the boy scouts in Tomball...Not a BAD thing.

When I hear people say that the interest is not there that really says it all...I may be stuck in reverse here but I can't believe that shooters would not start coming back if say the "CRAWFISH" was really a GCR party again...You have to have a reason just like the Super Shoot...

You can not go back in time but you also have to work on the future. I do not have the answers either Jackie but it seems to me that you see the frustration as well and it is a shame that we the people are are loosing the spirit of loading up the truck and heading to a match....

You mentioned that if you (meaning the Tomball Gun club) had not stepped up to the plate to continue the "CRAWFISH" that there would be no more "CRAWFISH". I agree with that but at the same time the interest of keeping it one of the most well known matches must have slipped thru the cracks someplace...I guess it's just going to be what it's going to be which is truly a shame that it is coming to this..Bench Rest is NOT like the Field of Dreams with "Build It and They Will Come"....All I know is that BR is still one of the most challenging and fun sports I have ever gotten into.You certainly meet many different types of people with as many different ideas, attitudes and theories to go along the way... We have some of the smartest guys out there that can make and manufacture just about anything. So why is it we can not keep up the spirit ?

I know I won't stop shooting and going to matches cause someday I'll go to a match and there will only be 5 shooters and then I might have a chance for some wood.. Ha Ha

We all know that it is not what is was or has been over the years..... Doug !
 
Ok, well here it goes.
Average age increased years ago.
I got into this the last time in 2002-3.
I was one of the younger shooters.
Now I am 53. And at my range I am in the upper of the medium.
Most see older than I am.
This sport is prohibitively expensive.
My home income is only around 70+K a year and its tough to try to buy all that is necessary to shoot each year.
The problem is so much of it is needed up front in order to complete.
So in reality the new shooters we are trying to reach are on the middle upper end of the economic scale.
Which in itself is not a problem but who are we chasing trying to gain as shooters.
They are the average shooters who can afford a couple of off the shelf rifles and standard reloading equipment.
Not 1k scopes and 2-3K rifles $300 powder measures and $200 wind flags etc etc etc.....
Go figure the rest of us are complaining about gas prices what does that say about the rest,....
And we wonder why its dwindling....
 
Hey Vern

I do understand what it costs to partake in this sport. It takes $$$ to get out there and shoot with everyone. I am going to be 54 this year as well. All your answers are very good and I hope other people chime in as well with there thoughts on this

This is not an olympic metal sport and won't find it on TV like football or hunting shows but there ought to be ways to still promote our sport. It is for the most part just a weekend game that is not for the cheap at heart. According to the December issue of NBRSA News. In 2008 our membership dues were at $64,898 and in 2010 it was a mere $40,616.The membership count was 1,599 in 2008 and 1,590 in 2010.Look at all the numbers. The match fees are the big hit taker. 2008 fees totaled $12,186 and in 2010 was a flop at $5,378.

It still seems to me we have the majority of the members but people are not making the matches which does not take a engineer to figure that out..We have a great organization and if you look at the same NBRSA issue at the 2010 board minutes you will find that everything under the sun was talked about by all the directors from traveling trophies to targets but yet no one put on the table to try and find ways to promote our matches better.. It was not cheap for everybody to go to Desoto Kansas and be a part of the meeting. We are costantly making changes to the rule book and to matches which is not a bad thing but we need to make people want to SHOOT matches as well..

To me bottom line is yes we are getting older but we should find away to make it worth while to go to our matches and that when people show up to see a match they can say man that looks like a good time...I know Fat Chance... But that was how it was for me. Granted not everybody at a match wants to talk to you because for some it is still a blood sport but that's with everything no matter what. But I got hooked up with the right folks and it has been a BLAST for over 10 years and counting...

Ahhhh the smell of gun powder is upon us.....
 
I will say that I enjoy the club match at ARC the best.
It is an afternoon match on Sunday and we only shoot one yardage.
I can sleep till 9:30 get to range at a slow pace and get some shooting and get home by 4:30.
I really don't want to have to wake up at 5:00 in the morning on my one weekend free.
I shoot a big match about once a year. That’s about all of the dawn to dusk driving an shooting I can stand. For example I like to go to RATON but I won't go if my wife won't go with me. The drive is just to brutal.
This year I will try to go to the Nationals since it is in the state and I suspect it will never get any closer to home. I might never get another chance to shoot in a National.
It just isn't that important to me to put that much more effort into it. I would rather put the effort into something that will give me more payback, such as my marriage or what is left of my carrer or maybe even a little R+R.
I consider Bench Rest R+R not a job. I don't want to work at it.

Also I will recommend to my club this year to change affiliation from the NBRSA to the IBS in the future. I am not really happy with the way Jackie got treated and It is hard for me to maintain respect for the organization.

Ted
 
Francis, it is a lot like car racing, paticularilly dirt track. You read "Circle Track" Magazine, and they lament about poor attendence at the "big show", and one sentence later say that all of those guys running "bombers" on Saturday Night at the local track should sooner or later step up and run with the big boys.

Sound familiar. The truth is, those guys running the cheapo "bombers" on Saturday night could care less if Slammin Sammy hasn't got anybody else to beat. They are having fun.

It might only be the bragging rights of East Beaumomt, but to these guys, it's as good as winning the Copper Bowl.

We who compete at the highest level might not like it, but those guys could care less.........jackie
 
Doug
Do you really want to know the truth or do you just want to talk in a touchy feely way because I know why attendance is down.This aint rocket science.
Lynn
 
Perhaps we shood look

at why Rimfire Benchrest seems to be growing. It's not that all of those things Francis has pointed out don't exist in Rimfire, they do but it might be interesting to ask some of those who have joined in over the past couple of years. Why did they get into Rimfire instead of Centerfire. It certainly isn't because it is less expensive :(
 
Pete
Its all about what goes on at the matches.If you look down your nose at a first time shooter or jump up and yell at him and tell him he is disqualified he isn't coming back.It makes matters worse if you have no authority to do this but you are a top dog with the organization we are speaking about.We don't need to name names but if anybody doubts that story we can and will.
There is no confusion on the westcoast why we don't get any new shooters and there is no confusion who is to blame.The problem is The Good Ol Boys need to be voted out of office but the complacancy among the shooters is truly inredible.
Worse yet if you post the factual undisputed facts of a problem that happened at a National event you get to hear from guys who live near and shoot with those in charge that YOU the VICTIM of there CHEATING should leave the sport.
I actually get a big kick out of these types of posts as the problem is as plain as the noses on your faces but you would all rather look someplace else.

To all the new or potential new shooters out there this is what to expect at a sanctioned National Event match with the Vice President,Regional Director and two Match Directors in attendance running the show.
You pay $50 to get a couple pieces of paper mailed to you with the match results.You get a patch and a rule book that is USELESS!!! You go to a National Match and when the good old boys are done picking there benches and relays you get what is leftover.If a problem occurs they cancel the match but keep your money.If you call the president he tells you he wishes your part of the organization would just go away and he doesn't care what happened.He says you should have called him and when you say you did he says oh well.
You put in for a special meeting as per that useless rulebook and it never happens because the good ol boys are ignoring you while they sweep a National Event under the table.

Of course you can always just shoot your club matches but due to all that took place you now have 4 or 5 shooters at the next two matches.Well maybe you could drive to another state and shoot there? but wait washington and colorado have dropped your organization as well because of how they were treated by your organization.You are now down to two clubs one in northern california and one in Arizona.
If the guys in charge tell you to your face and tell your 76 year old father to his face they are not interested in drawing in more shooters trust them.

I hear people here say its all about the money but they are just kidding themselves.The tactical shoots at our club have 3 year waiting lists for those wanting to join and the rifles all cost double what a benchrest rifle costs.They turn shooters away from there matches
after the first 250 shooters have signed up and they give away $50,000 worth of prizes.
Likewise the Varmint Shoots are bigger and bigger each and every year.

The shooters don't want to do anything but bury there heads in the sand so the organization will most likely run its course and fizzle away.You have 3 choices put in some effort,pay someone to do it for you or wait for it to die on its own.
Lynn
 
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Ill just put this up as some general information for whatever it serves.
I am of middle income. While I love to shoot and I shoot all the local matches I usually only shoot 1 maybe 2 registered matches a year.
REASONs: Time and expense
For me to shoot a registered match somewhere else Must drive and gas isnt getting any cheaper, I need to be there on Friday for a Saturday Sunday 2 day match.
Thats 2 nights in a hotel and the food that goes along with it.
Thats time off from work whether or not I use vacation time.
I love the matches, theres really not much more I would rather be doing but being a mgr. I cant afford to miss to much work.
However this year we have gone to working the company 40hr in 4 days giving me the possibility of 3 day weekends.
I am hoping to shoot some at tomball and maybe the nats this year but dont know if I can afford that or not.
So a lot of it boils down to time and money.
The ones with the most free time are the older crowd and usually they have set themselves better financially so they tend to have more money. Just an observation. That is why it is harder to get as many of the younger shooters involved in the registered matches.
To be honest if I were not able to shoot a registered match in a given year I probably would not have a NBRSA or IBS membership that year, after all when it is finances why pay for dues for matches I cant shoot.
Just some thoughts and info.

My plans for the future and shooting will be to convert a cargo trailer so that I can have a generator a fold up bunk and enough room to load so that I can eliminate more of the expenses and possibly be able to shoot.
Hopefully this year since a friend of mine is planning on shooting some of the same matches we can split the travel expenses.
 
"It proves one point and that is that those who shoot the small matches are afraid of real competition. "

Francis I am going to disagree with you on this account. I shoot the small matches but I'm not afraid of the competition. I'm just not willing to take the drive.
I will anti up for all the national competition you can bring to within an resonable driving distance of Austin TX as long as I have the time off.
 
Exactly what I was saying Ted.
Time off from work divided by shooting and time with family minus the expense well .....anyway.
 
FB

I will agree 110% with you on your last line on your post... That is so very true...I'm sure the darts will be flying soon and gain I'm only trying wanting out matches to be worth thre trip and I do believe they can be....

Lynn: I'm not a real touchy feely kind if guy and try to shoot from the hip a say my peace in a good way, so what is you NON rocket science answer to the matches attendance records....Is it Love and War or just plain people stuck on themselves which it seems as that is the way this post might be headed and going to now be the topic of conversation...
 
If you just want to get more people involved then open up or create classes that use the guns typically found being shot by people at the range.
That way they could try to compete with an actual chance of winning. Maybe then like most of us that started out with an off the shelf varmint rifle and got bit by the bug of it can be better will change over.
 
Another good point from Ted and Vern... So if you have to get the time off, drive to the match, pay for gas, hotel, food and the entry why does one want to do that if it's not going to be any fun for you or have a reason to WIN....I agree that makes it difficult for alot of people. I'm still somewhat of a youngster and my goal is to Hell with the HOF points I'm going to go and beat the crap out of one of those snobs who think they can't be beat !!! I think about that on the way to the match and during the match that every shot gets me that much closer to spoiling there day...I won't bring myself to anyones else level and I will have fun at the bench before the fire command and after the cease fire command all the way till the next match... I thought thats what it's all about...
 
Doug some good points.
I am pointing out the initial cost of competing. After all of that the bullets barrels and powder arent too bad.
As much as I love the sport I have actually beaten more or less some of the people on my list that I wanted to beat.
But when I have to choose between money for a major shoot or a vacation for the whole family ... well lets see,,, doesnt take a genius for that one.
But I will be there in a year or 2. Maybe the nationals this year since they are here in Texas but ..
 
Doug
The vice president of the organization you are referring too doesn't want more shooters and he will tell you that to your face.
He has told it to both my father and myself.
If your vice president doesn't want new shooters your not going to draw any in plain and simple.
Money has nothing/very little to do with it as the tactical guys outpace us by a mile.
Lynn
 
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