NBRSA management misses the point again june 2019

R

retired

Guest
june 2019 monthly mag, letter to the editor.
Lee h. completed dismisses EVERYTHING mentioned by the letter writer.
2 day matches are fine
everyone has time to be gone for 2 days
everyone has $500 to blow on a weekend

100% OPPOSITE OF THE LETTER WRITER
management is still out of touch with those
that WANT TO SHOOT.
just because you own your own biz and can walk away for 3-4 days at a time
does not mean EVERYONE that wants to shoot can do the same.
zero open minds in management and you wonder why there is no growth.
 
Well, I'll say this. A lot of we self employed people have no vacation or other off time. It ain't as easy to get off as you may think. 2 day shoots are about right and make it worth driving as far as some of us have to. I'll not get into the money deal as we all have to handle it as we can.
 
Slow down, stop yelling, speak calmly and clearly and try to explain what exactly it is that you are so upset about it?
 
Butch Lambert said:
Well, I'll say this. A lot of we self employed people have no vacation or other off time. It ain't as easy to get off as you may think. 2 day shoots are about right and make it worth driving as far as some of us have to. I'll not get into the money deal as we all have to handle it as we can.
Click to expand...

Butch for some reason I am finding this out.
 
I thought he addressed the writers question. Might not be what the writer wanted to hear but the reality is most people would be less interested in traveling 3-5hrs one way for a single day match. Shooting 100 and 200 the same day isn’t as practical. What’s preventing someone who can only shoot for a day from getting a light gun and doing just that?
 
No matter what you say or do you’ll never please everyone. I don’t know of any range that can shoot 100 and 200 yard matches on the same day. There just aren’t enough hours in the day to move backers and frames from 100 to 200 yards and then have the shooters move their flags from 100 to 200 yards. So, to shoot one gun at two yardages in one day is not realistic. The alternative is to shoot LV and HV 100 one day and HV and LV 200 the next day or the next weekend or the next month.
So retired, what range did you have a problem with or would you care to send out kudos to?
 
Francis, for years we did exactly that. Even at 2 Gun events. The frames were moved after the 100 to 200. We would start the with the 200 the next morning, and finish at 100. The reasoning for this was a shooter could shoot a Grand Ag if he could only attend one day. It has only been in recent years that ranges decided that not moving frames was more important than having shooters.

It’s now carried over to the Nationals. I can remember in years past where shooters who could not attend all week would come in Friday and Saturday and shoot the HV Grand. You can’t do that now, as all of the 100 yards are shot, and then the 200 yardages.

At Denton, in the mid ‘90’s, the shooters moved the frames. We all went out after the yardage and hauled them to 200. The next day, we started at 200, and then hauled them back to 100.

I am one of those that own a business that does prohibit me from making very many 2 day shoots. For the past years, business has been so good that Saturday is just another work day.

I even had to miss our two NBRSA Registered VFS Matches at Tomball, my home range this year because they decided to hold them on Saturday.

I would love to make a single day Group Match. We shoot 100-200 VFS Matches in one day on a regular basis. I know it is a little difficult setting up the moving backers as opposed to just moving frames, but like I said, for years we did it.

I’m not complaining. I make the Matches that I can. Things are just the way they are.
 
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two yardages a day

I don't say much on here but we at the Boone Valley Ikes have shot two yardages a day for two days for many years its what everyone here wants and that we do

Ron Berg
 
i dis-agree that he "addressed" the issues brought up.
what he did was DISMISS THEM AND SAY THAT what we do today is the only way.
closed minded/ narrow minded..not open to suggestions or ideas.
and no idea why there is not growth.
B_Rob85 said:
I thought he addressed the writers question. Might not be what the writer wanted to hear but the reality is most people would be less interested in traveling 3-5hrs one way for a single day match. Shooting 100 and 200 the same day isn’t as practical. What’s preventing someone who can only shoot for a day from getting a light gun and doing just that?
Click to expand...
 
When I started shooting, no ranges even considered shooting LV and HV yardages in the same day. Everyone carried cans of spray paint to mark their flags for easy setup. Shooters would help with the target frames. It was not considered a big deal. The Nationals (UL 100 Monday and 200 on Tuesday then LV and Sporter 100 on Wednesday) and the Super Shoot were done the same way. Boone Valley did it this way up until the last couple of years when even they went the lazy way at the shooters request, not the target crew.

I agree with the letter writer. Shoot one gun in one day. If you have a bad day, at least you can start fresh and even the next day. That's my desire, but I'm just happy to shoot matches, one way or another, when time allows.

Jim
 
You are right Jim.
We shot Unlimited and HV this past weekend at Seymour, Tex. We had 2 relays. We shot Unlimited 100&200 on Saturday, then 200&100 HV on Sunday. We were done at 2:45 on Sunday and on the road at 3:30 after loading up and the awards.
 
To retired, your beef with matches running 100 on Saturday and 200 on Sunday is not with NBRSA management, it is with the ranges you go and shoot at. NBRSA management only excepts the match schedule that the range directors send to NBRSA. And I would think the clubs are holding their matches as the majority would like to have them run. So if where you shoot at is not running matches as you wish, then it is up to you to get them to change.

For most of my life Short Range BR matches were run with a grand aggregate per day and flag had to be changed twice a day in most cases. I personally think that this will bring in the most shooters, especially in the HV class. Case in point the Super Shoot used to have the 10.5lb 100 first day 10.5lb 200 second day 13.5lb 100 third day and 13.5lb 200 the fourth day. When this format was run this way we would have 60 plus shooters show up just to shoot the 13.5lb class. When the Super Shoot started to get 6 and 7 relays, the format was changed to shooting both 100yds first two days and 200 yds the last two days. We had over 300 shooters for ten years with the new format, which was changed to help flag setters and the target crew from changing flags and frames everyday since we were almost filled to capacity of what we could do in one day. Today we are only getting 200 shooters at the Super Shoot and I at one point considered changing back to old format to see if more shooters would come in for the 13.5lb class. I am sure this would not have been happily accepted by the flag setters and the target crew, so I left it alone. Looking back it was probably not a good decision if you want to try and grow the sport. Those extra shooters are needed by us clubs to help financially and to keep cost of entry fees down. Of course if the off set of extra cost to move frames is more of a financial burden than the extra shooters bring in then the club will chose to not change yardages during each day.

Again do not blame NBRSA management for your local clubs decision to run matches as they see fit, go to your club and tell them your ideas and offer to help. Clubs are always looking for help and unfortunately more shooters will complain on how things are run instead of helping. Without clubs holding matches the way they see fit to run them, they are likely to just not hold matches and then were would you compete at.

Jim
 
retired - Where do you shoot matches? DO you shoot any matches? Your real name?

For anyone close to eastern Iowa/western Illinois, Oak Hill Gun Club holds a 1-gun NBRSA registered match each month April thru September. It alternates LV one month and HV the next. We shoot 100 in the morning, move targets, have lunch and shoot 200 in the afternoon. We are typically on the road home by 3:00 or 3:30 that afternoon. Schedule is in the magazine or on the NBRSA website.
 
i mainly shoot 600/1000
but i have a 30 br that i use in heavy.
at ben avery ..occasionally. nice guys
it is not about ME.
it is about MANAGEMENT claiming there is NO ISSUE..when the member just said there was.
i am truly a casual sr br shooter...but i pay attention to the sport.
member of three organizations.

management not listening to members again.
 
retired...you're not hearing what you read in Jim Kelbly's post. While the NBRSA could dictate what and how the clubs host matches they don't. The clubs have a menu and choose what and how from that menu. I'll also say that I think it would be suicide for the NBRSA to dictate anything further.
 
I agree with Wilbur in the fact that ranges are more in tune with what their range, range crew, equipment, and shooters in their region can and will deal with. To put the onus on NBRSA isn’t realistic.
 
gentlemen,
thank you for your very civil replies.
i agree clubs should decide what and how they run matches.
note that several mentioned single day 100/200 matches, which is exactly what the writer
was asking about/for.
and again note that managements reply was not supportive of one day matches.
the reply simply ignored the writers request. another attempt to increase participation
shoved aside.
thanks again for listening.
 
Hello mr. retired,
As the volunteer Editor of the magazine, I respond to the letters I received based on my own experience. I do not always consult with the “management”, as in this letter. I’m sorry you disagree with my thoughts on the issue. I try to be constructive and view issues from both sides of the story. As others have written, the ranges determine the course of fire.

I would like to discuss this issue with you the next time I’m at Ben Avery range in the Phoenix (you will have to come to me since I don’t know who you are), or you can just call me at any time.

Lee Hachigian
Editor, Precision Rifleman Magazine
 
Very well put and very understandable to the why's and how comes of it all. Our range only has fifteen benches each at a 100 and 200. It required our range to have moving backers at both distances with half the group shooting at 100 the other half at 200 and then having to switch to complete an event. Even at that it still required having a two day match there was just no way of getting around it. One day was group and the next day score and the awards.
 
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