Bill - you might not feel quite so simpathetic for the poor SOB if you had a loved one in the building as I did. Thankfully, Jennifer was able to escape this madman's attack without physical injury.
Ryan
Bill - you might not feel quite so simpathetic for the poor SOB if you had a loved one in the building as I did. Thankfully, Jennifer was able to escape this madman's attack without physical injury.
Ryan
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benenglish
Guest
Incorrect.
To mildly oversimplify - IRS debt collections are subject to a statute of limitations; when the statute runs out, the debt no longer exists.
Bill Wynne
Active member
Ryan,
Please excuse my attempt to use words. At times like these, words are almost useless.
I am truly glad for you that Jennifer did get out. As you and your Jennifer know, at least one other person who will be missed by many and was loved by some did not escape and others were badly hurt. I am sure the horror of yesterday will change the lives of many.
We can never understand the understandable. Like I said before, "His demons got him". It is too bad that they didn't just get him before he hurt so many. His immortal soul now will answer to God's judgement. We all should pity him for that even while we waist our hate on him and don't understand why he did what he did.
Bill
Bill, I appreciate your kinds words and apologize if I over reacted to your prior post. As you can imagine, I still harbor some strong feelings and resentment against this man. If he had hit the building 50 ft further to the south I might not be sitting on the couch next to my fiance right now. We are very thankful but others are not so lucky.
Limiting access to airplanes, cars or guns is not the answer. What we must do is be vigilant of those around us who may need help and not leave it up to others to intervene when necessary.
Take care, hug a loved one and tell those that are important to you how much you care about them.
Ryan
Bill Wynne
Active member
I understand, Ryan. We all understand your feelings. You and Jennifer have many friends at this time. Most of them you have not met.
Bill
Bill
I assume you work for the government, and know something about this?
They will follow you wherever you move, hound your ass, garnish your wages, and ultimately ruin you! Unlike bankruptcy, you will not be able to start clean. And because they ARE the government and each office worker there feels that "I don't make the rules, I only administer them" they do their job without conscience. (No different then some of the instances we have heard with some people at the ATF that are simply doing their "Job".)
I don't know what "statute" you are talking about, but if there is one, try living like that for 10 or 20 years. I think they'ed have made me a pretty broken man after a lot less time then that.
But, as much as I detest their tactics, I am a sane individual that would never condone violence. Just like abortion, I can only hope that peacable changes will eventually be made.
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abintx
Guest
Former IRS agent representation is available ...
Everyday, over and over [sometimes 6 or 7 times a day], there are TV ads, offering services by a variety of firms who represent clients before the IRS. The ads explicitly announce that their firm's advocates are former IRS agents who know how to help adjudicate or settle squabbles on behalf of their clients. I wonder if Mr. Stack had ever considered this route? We'll never know.
Everyday, over and over [sometimes 6 or 7 times a day], there are TV ads, offering services by a variety of firms who represent clients before the IRS. The ads explicitly announce that their firm's advocates are former IRS agents who know how to help adjudicate or settle squabbles on behalf of their clients. I wonder if Mr. Stack had ever considered this route? We'll never know.
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beemanbeme
Guest
Considering the savage attacks by the media on anyone seeking public office, I'm not surprised that an honest man that will run is hard to find.
I agree, however, that the ones we have now are the absolute scrapings. and don't forget the "Czardoms" created by the President so he could avoid Senate approval.
I agree, however, that the ones we have now are the absolute scrapings. and don't forget the "Czardoms" created by the President so he could avoid Senate approval.
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benenglish
Guest
You assume correctly.
The relevant statute is Internal Revenue Code 6502. As it says in the second full paragraph on the linked page, "...IRC 6502 provides that the length of period for collection after assessment of a tax liability is ten years. The collection statute expiration ends the government's right to pursue collection of a liability."
In practical terms, if your financial situation renders you unable to pay your taxes without undue hardship, an Officer can make that determination and put your account in a "non-collection" status. You still get a letter every year asking if you can pay and reminding you of the debt. Your tax return information gets looked at by a computer each year and if it shows you're making more money, you may get a call. But the IRS has no problem with letting people who truly are unable to pay get away with not paying. It's just a bad debt that eventually goes away.
However, if a person makes enough money to buy a plane and still refuses to keep their tax situation straight, if a person continues to screw up by having "unreported income" in later years, if a person lays the foundation of their tax compliance habits for nearly their entire adult life by getting involved with and buying into the nonsense spouted by what were once referred to as "illegal tax protester" groups, well, then, I feel quite sure that person is going to feel like the IRS has singled them out for punishment and is hounding them for all their life.
That doesn't make it true.
This guy, according to his "manifesto", did all those incredibly stupid things and more. He created his own situation and then he couldn't handle it.
He gets no sympathy from me.
The wife and child he left behind, the workers who lost their sense of physical security at the office, the innocents injured and the one killed - those are the people I feel for.
All that said, I understand that frustration with tax administration is common and perfectly reasonable. I can think of a thousand changes that would make life easier for everyone and make our system of taxation more fair, more simple, and far less onerous.
I assume we are in complete agreement that crashing a plane into a building is certainly not the way to go about making those changes.
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nhkuehl
Guest
Just wondering
Ben,
Just curious, how did Timothy Geithner and Tom Daschle (just to name a couple) 'get behind' in their taxes? nhk
Ben,
Just curious, how did Timothy Geithner and Tom Daschle (just to name a couple) 'get behind' in their taxes? nhk
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benenglish
Guest
According to the Wall Street Journal, "Timothy Geithner didn't pay Social Security and Medicare taxes for several years while he worked for the International Monetary Fund...". Per the New York Times, Daschle "...had income that he didn’t report..."
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nhkuehl
Guest
Oh yes, the convenient lapse of memory.....
"The system is what it is, and law-abiding citizens are supposed to comply with it."
Thanks Ben. nhk
"The system is what it is, and law-abiding citizens are supposed to comply with it."
Thanks Ben. nhk
brian roberts
New member
The Constitution maintains...............
that there is to be no individual tax. That taxes were unneeded, because countries wanting to do business here were to pay duties and excises, back when we had things that were worth buying. The remarkable thing about those guys who formed our former republic is, they didn't want to pay any taxes they didn't have to, so they set things up so it wasn't necessary. And, it isn't necessary to pay one's "fair share" now, since it isn't a crime to arrange your affairs to minimize your liability. One can "avoid" taxes and it isn't criminal, "evade" taxes, is something else. I just think its a CRIME we have to pay those taxes we do for such fine potholes in our streets and highways that go unrepaired, to the peril of others who may not be solvent enough to pull into the alignment shop every three months. I think its a real crime there are children right HERE that are hungry, while money gets shoveled out to foreign countries, that illegal immigration is CRAMMED down our throats, that illegals drain our system, to OUR peril......Then we read where mrs. pelosi got ticked because her issued plane had to stop for fuel once each way, as she went back and forth to home in Kalifornia, so she digs a new plane out of the Air Force, that contributes a bill for $120,000 round trip, EACH WEEK, plus I understand the bar bill on that plane for her and her RELATIVES to fly back & forth to visit with her is now up to over $100,000 . These are the crimes I see, and I WONDER how the original signers of the Declaration, and Constitution would have handled it, back when there was some responsiblity for one's actions.
that there is to be no individual tax. That taxes were unneeded, because countries wanting to do business here were to pay duties and excises, back when we had things that were worth buying. The remarkable thing about those guys who formed our former republic is, they didn't want to pay any taxes they didn't have to, so they set things up so it wasn't necessary. And, it isn't necessary to pay one's "fair share" now, since it isn't a crime to arrange your affairs to minimize your liability. One can "avoid" taxes and it isn't criminal, "evade" taxes, is something else. I just think its a CRIME we have to pay those taxes we do for such fine potholes in our streets and highways that go unrepaired, to the peril of others who may not be solvent enough to pull into the alignment shop every three months. I think its a real crime there are children right HERE that are hungry, while money gets shoveled out to foreign countries, that illegal immigration is CRAMMED down our throats, that illegals drain our system, to OUR peril......Then we read where mrs. pelosi got ticked because her issued plane had to stop for fuel once each way, as she went back and forth to home in Kalifornia, so she digs a new plane out of the Air Force, that contributes a bill for $120,000 round trip, EACH WEEK
, plus I understand the bar bill on that plane for her and her RELATIVES to fly back & forth to visit with her is now up to over $100,000 . These are the crimes I see, and I WONDER how the original signers of the Declaration, and Constitution would have handled it, back when there was some responsiblity for one's actions.
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abintx
Guest
Brian ...
Don't forget, there are approximately 193 other countries in the world you can move to ... if unsatisfied with this one. And no border guards with weapons will stop you from fleeing.
Don't forget, there are approximately 193 other countries in the world you can move to ... if unsatisfied with this one. And no border guards with weapons will stop you from fleeing.
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RayfromTX
Guest
touche'
G
Greg Culpepper
Guest
We'd better take good care of what we've been given by history. There is no New World from which to create it again.
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nhkuehl
Guest
America love it or leave it
I agree, we have to take care of what we've got.
The president took an oath:
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
He's also stated, "The constitution is fundamentally flawed..." So clearly he is not on board to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
I also took an oath:
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
Stay informed. Vote! nhk
I agree, we have to take care of what we've got.
The president took an oath:
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
He's also stated, "The constitution is fundamentally flawed..." So clearly he is not on board to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
I also took an oath:
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
Stay informed. Vote! nhk
brian roberts
New member
I agree, and NO one has absolved............
me of that oath that I took. Giving up and moving out is an asinine suggestion. What I am calling attention to, is the contortion of our country by those who'd love us to believe that their actions are perfectly in tune with the oath that THEY took . There are SERIOUS problems here that need to be addressed, while we may as well be conducting overflights of foreign nations, shoveling doubloons and double eagles off the loading ramp!!
me of that oath that I took
. Giving up and moving out is an asinine suggestion. What I am calling attention to, is the contortion of our country by those who'd love us to believe that their actions are perfectly in tune with the oath that THEY took . There are SERIOUS problems here that need to be addressed, while we may as well be conducting overflights of foreign nations, shoveling doubloons and double eagles off the loading ramp!!
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Paul Fielder
Guest
friggin amazing...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100224/ap_on_re_us/us_plane_crash_texas_1
IRS worker's widow sues Texas suicide pilot's wife
AP
Tue Feb 23, 9:05 pm ET
AUSTIN, Texas – The widow of the Internal Revenue Service employee killed when a Texas man crashed his plane into the agency's Austin office is suing the pilot's widow.
Attorney Daniel Ross says the lawsuit against Sheryl Stack seeks to determine if the pilot left behind insurance policies or other assets.
Ross represents Valerie Hunter, whose 68-year-old husband Vernon Hunter was killed last week when authorities say Joseph Stack deliberately crashed his single-engine plane into the IRS office.
Joseph Stack left behind a lengthy anti-government Internet posting blaming the IRS for personal problems spanning decades.
The lawsuit filed Monday says Sheryl Stack should have warned others about her husband.
A message seeking comment was left Tuesday with a family spokesman for Sheryl Stack.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100224/ap_on_re_us/us_plane_crash_texas_1
IRS worker's widow sues Texas suicide pilot's wife
AP
Tue Feb 23, 9:05 pm ET
AUSTIN, Texas – The widow of the Internal Revenue Service employee killed when a Texas man crashed his plane into the agency's Austin office is suing the pilot's widow.
Attorney Daniel Ross says the lawsuit against Sheryl Stack seeks to determine if the pilot left behind insurance policies or other assets.
Ross represents Valerie Hunter, whose 68-year-old husband Vernon Hunter was killed last week when authorities say Joseph Stack deliberately crashed his single-engine plane into the IRS office.
Joseph Stack left behind a lengthy anti-government Internet posting blaming the IRS for personal problems spanning decades.
The lawsuit filed Monday says Sheryl Stack should have warned others about her husband.
A message seeking comment was left Tuesday with a family spokesman for Sheryl Stack.