I have a new 1993 Hall model S action that i would like to build a back up 30Br with. I also have a Robertson BRX stock coming for this action. What i would like to do is find someone that can build me a barrel block, so that i can free float the action in this stock. the reason why i want to do this, is because the Hall really doesnt have a recoil lug cut into the action and i dont want to add one nor do i want to glue this action into my stock. i figure if i can find, or have a heavy barrel block built, and have someone install into my Robertson stock I wouldn't need any other recoil support. I have had this idea for a while now, but i really need to find someone that can do this work for me so we can discuss what the best route will be for the project. I am stealing this idea from a scoville stock that larry S has and shoots. like i say the only difference will be the stock of course, and the recoil block. My recoil block will need to take 30Br recoil. I love to shoot score, and i would like to have a second rifle to take with me when i travel out of state, and i want to do something that i havent seen on the line yet. This is my plan, if it will work. I dont even know that it will, I would think it would, but i really dont know. The 30Br does have a little recoil and i am not familiar with how these Robertson stocks are made. I dont even know if i can safely install a recoil block into one of these stocks. i have tried to call Robertson several time the past few weeks but i get no answer. but maybe we can discuss this a little here? Also if there is anyone out there that wants to tackle this project with me, let me know. thanks Lee
My latest idea. I may need some advise if feasible.
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
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4Mesh
Guest
What discipline are you expecting to shoot with it? 600 yard? I have not followed your threads close enough to remember. I do remember the bench building one but only the bench parts. If this is going to be a point blank rifle, then those rules will differ from the 600 yard. You have to make weight with either class, this is something to consider when drawing up a block. How do you expect to attach it? Split block? Glued block?
Some smiths stock blocks of various shapes and sizes. At least ones that do a lot of long range rifles (600/1000). Even if they were not ideal, beginning with one of them and whittling on it might be easier than making one from scratch. I've made a few and they are not a real easy project without the right tools. If it's only a 6" block, then that's no big deal. But, if they get up around 10" or more, they can be a pita.
Some smiths stock blocks of various shapes and sizes. At least ones that do a lot of long range rifles (600/1000). Even if they were not ideal, beginning with one of them and whittling on it might be easier than making one from scratch. I've made a few and they are not a real easy project without the right tools. If it's only a 6" block, then that's no big deal. But, if they get up around 10" or more, they can be a pita.
Phil, I *think* he's talking about a short-range score rifle. In my limited experience with blocks & point-blank rifles, you build it around the stock. esp. if you want a switch-barrel rifle, where a glue in block won't work. My .30BR heavy varmint is a glue-in.
IIRC, while NBRSA has done away with it, IBS still has the rule that the front of the block can be no farther forward than 4 inches from the boltface, which essentially limits you to a 3-inch block. There are several ways to do this; as you say, they are all a pita, esp. if you're close to weight/balance problems.
Never found recoil to be an issue.
One thing you really want to avoid with a "scope-ring" type block is a heat difference between the font & back. If the base is one piece, likely shouldn't be much of an issue, but Shehane had a complete two-piece "scope ring" type block; it was right over the chamber, you can imagine what happened as the barrel heated. Well, it's repeatable, you can always hold for it. Bill even won a couple relays shooting that way, then stopped tightening one of them as I remember. This was a .338 Lapua. Does show how little contact you need for a block to take the recoil.
One thing I like about barrel blocks is having the scope base mount on the block, cantilevered back over the action. That way, you know the barrel and scope are always pointed in the same direction. My .30 BR HV has fewer "mystery shots" than any other unblocked rifle I own.
From his intended purpose, I'd not worry about using a block at all. If it worries you, maybe check with a few score shooters that use the Hall action (I've never owned one), but from my point of view, the lack of a recoil lug with a .30 BR and a standard setup is not an issue. Back of the action is enough.
IIRC, while NBRSA has done away with it, IBS still has the rule that the front of the block can be no farther forward than 4 inches from the boltface, which essentially limits you to a 3-inch block. There are several ways to do this; as you say, they are all a pita, esp. if you're close to weight/balance problems.
Never found recoil to be an issue.
One thing you really want to avoid with a "scope-ring" type block is a heat difference between the font & back. If the base is one piece, likely shouldn't be much of an issue, but Shehane had a complete two-piece "scope ring" type block; it was right over the chamber, you can imagine what happened as the barrel heated. Well, it's repeatable, you can always hold for it. Bill even won a couple relays shooting that way, then stopped tightening one of them as I remember. This was a .338 Lapua. Does show how little contact you need for a block to take the recoil.
One thing I like about barrel blocks is having the scope base mount on the block, cantilevered back over the action. That way, you know the barrel and scope are always pointed in the same direction. My .30 BR HV has fewer "mystery shots" than any other unblocked rifle I own.
From his intended purpose, I'd not worry about using a block at all. If it worries you, maybe check with a few score shooters that use the Hall action (I've never owned one), but from my point of view, the lack of a recoil lug with a .30 BR and a standard setup is not an issue. Back of the action is enough.
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Lee, that's some of the problems you get into when adapting an action for 'bolt in use' that was designed to be a 'glue in'.
Been there, done that..not going there again.
Honestly, the easiest and most effective thing to do is simply have a lug pinned to the front of the action. Using two pins, the lug will index correctly after changing barrels and if you allow plenty of room around the sides and bottom of of the recoil lug mortise, you'll not have any lug bind issues when putting it back in the stock after swapping barrels. No need to use some 3/8" thick Tactical Mall Ninja/Gun Show Commando lug.....just a standard thickness lug will do. I like the Tubb lugs because their draft angle on the sides makes it easier to r&r the barreled action with less risk of dinging up the bedding.
All the Halls I've seen have 10-32 threads for the rear 'screw' (actually, they use this to secure the trigger guard). Some have had a front screw hole (also 10-32) and some haven't. If you want to use standard 1/4X28 action screws, these will need to be opened up and tapped. Not that the 10-32's don't have enough strength, because they do...just pointing out what may already be obvious to you.
I'm not a fan of the rear of the action as a recoil lug on a 'bolt in' for a lot of reasons. But if you're determined to go that way, I'd inlet a countured piece of aluminum into the rear tang area of the stock so the back of the action tang has something solid to bear against.
For what it's worth..... -Al
Been there, done that..not going there again.
Honestly, the easiest and most effective thing to do is simply have a lug pinned to the front of the action. Using two pins, the lug will index correctly after changing barrels and if you allow plenty of room around the sides and bottom of of the recoil lug mortise, you'll not have any lug bind issues when putting it back in the stock after swapping barrels. No need to use some 3/8" thick Tactical Mall Ninja/Gun Show Commando
lug.....just a standard thickness lug will do. I like the Tubb lugs because their draft angle on the sides makes it easier to r&r the barreled action with less risk of dinging up the bedding. All the Halls I've seen have 10-32 threads for the rear 'screw' (actually, they use this to secure the trigger guard). Some have had a front screw hole (also 10-32) and some haven't. If you want to use standard 1/4X28 action screws, these will need to be opened up and tapped. Not that the 10-32's don't have enough strength, because they do...just pointing out what may already be obvious to you.
I'm not a fan of the rear of the action as a recoil lug on a 'bolt in' for a lot of reasons. But if you're determined to go that way, I'd inlet a countured piece of aluminum into the rear tang area of the stock so the back of the action tang has something solid to bear against.
For what it's worth..... -Al
I am use to the older BAT actions, and of the opinion the rear of the tang is sufficient. With a 10" BAT, I've used that as the only lug for a .300 Dakota (equivalent) shooting 240 grain bullets. With the 8.5 BAT, a 6.5/06 AI & 150 grain bullets. (Also, consider the Beggs skeleton stocks -- the notion of a recoil lug is just absent.)
But these are BATs, not Halls, and I'll allow there are those who feel even a thick tang is insufficient. The points Al makes are certainly worth considering.
There is no question a barrel block will do the job Skeet wants. But aside from not knowing the Hall S, I don't know the Robertson stock. Some stocks -- any Lee Six design, or the Borden Rimrock, are not conducive for barrel blocking.
On the less expensive side, a Shehane Obeche wooden stock on an Adamowicz pattern will work -- barely. If you need to make a clamping block, as for a switch barrel, some head scratching is in store. I *think* I could do it. BTW, this is almost a 3-pound stock; any LV aspirations should be gone.
I've spoken to Terry Leonard, and he can do it, and make LV weight to boot. Terry's stocks are justifiably expensive.
As I said, I don't know the Robertson. At some point, you can't use just any stock or any action. The block should be an integral part of the design of the rifle.
But these are BATs, not Halls, and I'll allow there are those who feel even a thick tang is insufficient. The points Al makes are certainly worth considering.
There is no question a barrel block will do the job Skeet wants. But aside from not knowing the Hall S, I don't know the Robertson stock. Some stocks -- any Lee Six design, or the Borden Rimrock, are not conducive for barrel blocking.
On the less expensive side, a Shehane Obeche wooden stock on an Adamowicz pattern will work -- barely. If you need to make a clamping block, as for a switch barrel, some head scratching is in store. I *think* I could do it. BTW, this is almost a 3-pound stock; any LV aspirations should be gone.
I've spoken to Terry Leonard, and he can do it, and make LV weight to boot. Terry's stocks are justifiably expensive.
As I said, I don't know the Robertson. At some point, you can't use just any stock or any action. The block should be an integral part of the design of the rifle.
Thanks guys
I dont want a glue in, nor do i really want to mess around with recoil lugs. I love hall actions as i feel they are made really really well, I also love that big fat bolt! I think they look good, and feel even better. Anyway not wanting a glue in, nor a recoil lug, is why i am thinking about the barrel block. I just dont know who would do the work for me. I dont know anyone that has such a set up, besides my buddy jay, and he did his himself. Does anyone even make a barrel block for something like this? Lee
I would just about bet that this Hall action would be fine screwed and glued into this Robertson stock with out another recoil lug added, and if someone would have ever asked my opinion on this, i would to say that i think it would be just fine. However when something is your own, and your paying the bill with hard earned money, you sorta feel a little different about how you approach ideas. I know i probably over think a lot of my ideas, but thats my nature, and i have learned to live with it. I really like the barrel block idea, but i also don't want to rap 500 bucks up into something that can be accomplished for 200$. So i guess i am still on the fence a bit about what to do. i need a second 30Br if i am going to travel away from home to shoot this coming season, and i have this brand new hall action here, so i have to make this work one way or another. if i had to buy the action all over again i would buy another Borden rim rock. You wouldn't believe how well my new LV 6ppc is shooting with the rimrock action. Its unreal!!! I am very pleased with Jim's action. top notch!! I do like the hall though, very much actually. There is something special about these old hall actions, and the one i have is new unfired. I love it and i want to make it work. its a right bolt left port, so that will be great for 30BR score shooting. If it happened to be a dual port i would just do another 6ppc LV rig. I much prefer the dual port for ppc shooting. much faster! lee
I dont want a glue in, nor do i really want to mess around with recoil lugs. I love hall actions as i feel they are made really really well, I also love that big fat bolt! I think they look good, and feel even better. Anyway not wanting a glue in, nor a recoil lug, is why i am thinking about the barrel block. I just dont know who would do the work for me. I dont know anyone that has such a set up, besides my buddy jay, and he did his himself. Does anyone even make a barrel block for something like this? Lee
I would just about bet that this Hall action would be fine screwed and glued into this Robertson stock with out another recoil lug added, and if someone would have ever asked my opinion on this, i would to say that i think it would be just fine. However when something is your own, and your paying the bill with hard earned money, you sorta feel a little different about how you approach ideas. I know i probably over think a lot of my ideas, but thats my nature, and i have learned to live with it. I really like the barrel block idea, but i also don't want to rap 500 bucks up into something that can be accomplished for 200$. So i guess i am still on the fence a bit about what to do. i need a second 30Br if i am going to travel away from home to shoot this coming season, and i have this brand new hall action here, so i have to make this work one way or another. if i had to buy the action all over again i would buy another Borden rim rock. You wouldn't believe how well my new LV 6ppc is shooting with the rimrock action. Its unreal!!! I am very pleased with Jim's action. top notch!! I do like the hall though, very much actually. There is something special about these old hall actions, and the one i have is new unfired. I love it and i want to make it work. its a right bolt left port, so that will be great for 30BR score shooting. If it happened to be a dual port i would just do another 6ppc LV rig. I much prefer the dual port for ppc shooting. much faster! lee
E
eww1350
Guest
Lee...do what you feel will work, but I had a Hall M that was screwed into a Bruno/McMillan stock (bedded it myself) and screwed on a Bartlein 30BR barrel, shot Cheek 118 grain bullets at 2990 fps and still hold our local range record witha 500-33Xs...I shot that rifle with a Lilja 30BR barrel also and it never had a rcoil lug...I depended on the rear of the action and it worked fine for me...If you want a barrel block them go for it, but don't use the lack of a rcoil lug as the reason to do so...
Eddie in Texas
Eddie in Texas
Like Eddie and Charles said, I sure wouldn't barrel block it just to get around a recoil lug issue....you introduce too many other variables into the equation.
A good tang area reinforcement can be as simple as a piece of 3/8" alum. rod inletted at an angle through the wrist area of the stock, glassed in, then profiled to match the back of the tang. Then a proper pillar bedding job, as usual. If you have questions on the stocks ability to handle recoil using the unaltered tang area, I'm sure Jim Borden would be able to address your concerns if you're not having any luck reaching Robertson.
Does your action have a front screw hole? -Al
A good tang area reinforcement can be as simple as a piece of 3/8" alum. rod inletted at an angle through the wrist area of the stock, glassed in, then profiled to match the back of the tang. Then a proper pillar bedding job, as usual. If you have questions on the stocks ability to handle recoil using the unaltered tang area, I'm sure Jim Borden would be able to address your concerns if you're not having any luck reaching Robertson.
Does your action have a front screw hole? -Al
I may just hold off and think this through a bit more. I noticed this morning that my scope mount screws are the smaller size. 8 by 32 I do believe? Anyway I had planed on using a NF scope so I am unsure of the strengh with the smaller screws. The action does have a front mount screw so maybe even though I do not like glued in actions and glue and screw is the way to go? I'm going to hold off and not force anything for a bit I think. Lee
Lee...if the Hall is what you want, just do it.
-Use the rear tang as the recoil lug (with or w/o reinforcement).
-Use the 10-32 action screws (or enlarge them to 1/4X28's).
-Use the 8-32 base mounting holes (or enlarge them to 8-40's).
Nuthin' to it, but to do it........ -Al
-Use the rear tang as the recoil lug (with or w/o reinforcement).
-Use the 10-32 action screws (or enlarge them to 1/4X28's).
-Use the 8-32 base mounting holes (or enlarge them to 8-40's).
Nuthin' to it, but to do it........ -Al
Skeet: there is a Gentleman named Jeffry Madison of M Werks.com that is just what you are after for the Barrell Block, and he also makes Tuners for the Action. I have one of the Ross Aluminum stocks with Jeffery's Tuner on my Anschutz actioned Prone Rifle, it makes a world of difference.
J
Jefferson
Guest
Robertson Composites is not in business at this time, good luck getting a stock, they are under water for the second time,
the folks in the USA that "own" the rights to having the stocks made or not made may want to get ahold of the trustee to protect their rights,
I have a scoville barrel block stock I wish to part with and a barrel for that stock with a extended trigger to make it work,
PM me
Jefferson
the folks in the USA that "own" the rights to having the stocks made or not made may want to get ahold of the trustee to protect their rights,
I have a scoville barrel block stock I wish to part with and a barrel for that stock with a extended trigger to make it work,
PM me
Jefferson
Steve Nash
New member
Lee,
Mill a flat where a magazine would be like Bat actions and use that as a recoil lug...otherwise bed it around the tang and use that...I have done that with a 40X in 6ppc and only screwed it in.
Steve
Mill a flat where a magazine would be like Bat actions and use that as a recoil lug...otherwise bed it around the tang and use that...I have done that with a 40X in 6ppc and only screwed it in.
Steve
Might work, but remember Hall's use full diameter bolts. I'd think long & hard before taking any metal off the bottom of an "S" action.
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I talked with a fella today who claims that he has tried the barrel block in the stock here in question. His was a rimfire rifle, and he strongly recommended not to do a barrel block in this Robertson BRX stock. He claims the stock isnt stiff enough for repeatable results. Without me having any other information about a barrel block in this stock, i suppose i need to take his advice and not proceed with my idea. I cant afford to make a $800 mistake. Looks like the stock will be sent off to Tom M for a conventional bed job. Just as well anyway!! No need for me to be the guinea pig. Lee
$800? What is Terry Leonard getting for one of his wood/carbon fiber masterpieces these days? Use to be only $200 more than that. Terry's a southern boy rather than midwestern, but I never heard any anything aside from positive, even from midwestern shooters. 'Course Terry beats us all the time, but no one's perfect . . .