Most accurate powder scale and methods??

Mike,

stool said:
why would a reloader care about COMMERCIAL certification?
most of us are looking at real world practicality....
either it works or it does not...and is repeatable
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You can change your handle, but you cannot hide. And......you really should think about your current handle. too many bad interpretation.

David
 
I'd love to have a high-end magnetic force restoration scale. Just because I like nice things.

But, 500 yards is all that I shoot and I'm also a thrifty kind of guy that's married to an accountant.

So, I use a ChargeMaster for all my 100-200 loads and, for the 300-500, use it to feed a $50 tuned up Ohaus beam balance. I can see one kernel of Varget or 4831sc drop into the pan of the Ohaus.

I level it and check it with a check-weight every time that I use it. Just because.

Using a tip from Boyd Allen, I set up a web cam so that I don't have to strain my back or eyes to see when it's level. Works great.

BTW, I warm up, then calibrate the ChargeMaster when I use it for 100/200. I let it warm up but do not bother to calibrate it when I use it to feed the Ohaus. No need. The Ohaus is the final word.
 
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Sounds like I might have found "some" of my ES issues. I don't shoot the small stuff most of you guys do, but try to learn as much as I can from you for the long range stuff I do.

I thought I had the powder scale issue licked when I would constantly check my scale (RCBS 1500) with my check weight (a 210 Berger that allows weighs 210.0) My load uses 91 grs. of H1000 and I figured if my check bullet always weighs 210.0 I am good to go...but now, maybe not.

I also have a 10-10..but could NEVER get it to level and be repeatable.

Thanks,
John
 
I don't have a clue about most accurate, But I have been very well satisfied with my 10/10, I now use a digital unit like many others but I always check when in doubt with the 10/10, matter of fact I did so this evening.. I hadn't pulled the ole beam out for a while but when I changed powder lots I had to raise three clicks on the powder measure to reach my load according to my digital scale, so I checked everything on the ole beam, Spot on, guess there was a very small difference in either Humidity,Temperature or maybe in the new lot of powder.........
 
I think it is pretty amazing

how this topic has come up and gone around over the years. Apparently some of the top shooters have changed their minds regarding powder measures, over the years and some haven't.

From my experience, one can throw charges and load un-measured bullets out of the box and maintain some amount of success but no one will ever convince me that trying to achieve perfection is a worthless endeavor. I have done too much testing and seen to much proof to the contrary.

Pete
 
Some people improve, some don't,

Dick Grosbier said:
I think it is probably safe to say on any subject, over a period of time some people change their minds, and some don't.
Dick
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Now, there is a plum Dick, eh? :)

I believe the tide has swung toward weighing over the years; mebby I should have said - - -

I wouldn't recommend anyone waste precious bullets testing much so go ahead believing what ya believe. Always reminds me of the Dubie Brothers song, "What a Fool Believes". Heck, about everything reminds me of someone's song lyrics :) .


Pete
 
I guess if what you believe "produces", stick with it. If not, then be open to "change your mind".
 
kdvarmint said:
I guess if what you believe "produces", stick with it. If not, then be open to "change your mind".
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I think that's right! If somebody tries something different and passes through an exceptional barrel while using that item, it's difficult to convince them that the item is a waste of time. Doesn't matter that it doesn't work any longer because, given time, it WILL work again.
 
To really see a difference in scales you have have one very accurate one to compare against. So you might as well use the a GD 503 and be done with it. I went the balance beam and tuned beam scales, digital and my powder measure and compared them against the GD503 and they are a joke.Just because the scale shows the same weight every time that may be a .2 variation. You had better get something to compare it against or your just spinning you wheels…………jim O'Hara
 
jim1K said:
To really see a difference in scales you have have one very accurate one to compare against. So you might as well use the a GD 503 and be done with it. I went the balance beam and tuned beam scales, digital and my powder measure and compared them against the GD503 and they are a joke.Just because the scale shows the same weight every time that may be a .2 variation. You had better get something to compare it against or your just spinning you wheels…………jim O'Hara
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Ba-da-BOOM!!

Thank you Jim!

:)

al
 
Scales, repeatability and accuracy.

I started with two different beam balances, one oil damped and one magnetic. I added one of those cheap Lee scales and damned if it wasn't the most consistent!

As I shoot long range BR, I wanted the most consistent load I could get. So, I got a Gempro and it is indeed a very nice balance for the money. But, I didn't like the lack of consistency (that word again) in the tare reading. So, I took a gamble and bought an old Ohaus TS200 on ebay.
So, I started with beam balances, moved on to a strain gauge balance (GemPro) and finally gravitated to a Magnetic Force Restoration balance. And, I am happy.

Summaries: The Ohaus is no better or no worse than the GD503 or the latest $500-$1000 balance. They all have 1 mg resolution and 1mg accuracy and superb stability. By the way, 1 mg is about 0.015 gn. My balance reads in grams or grains, but on grains, it truncates to 0.02gn steps in least significant digit so I weigh my loads in grams for 0.015gn equivalent accuracy. So much for the consistency I wanted, all these balances offer 1mg repeatability and accuracy.

So, what about accuracy? I really don't care about accuracy as long as I get repeatability. Instead of buying a high quality 100g and 200g mass to use for caliberation that must be handled with gloves and stored in a temp constant environment, I had some masses with accuracy of 3mg for a 100g weight. I took two 100g weights and weighed them on my balance. I took the heaviest one and sanded the bottom with 400 grit paper till they both weighed exactly the same. Now I have two 100gram masses to NORM'S accuracy and I use them for caliberation.
And, my velocity sd and ES did improve!. Even better when I started matching bullet seating force!
 
Normmatzen said:
So, what about accuracy? I really don't care about accuracy as long as I get repeatability.
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I am exactly the opposite, and I require (and achieve) single digit ES using cases as diverse as PPC/BR, 308, -06, WSM clear up to a blown out 338Lapua....I can easily repeat loads, what concerns me is that I must be able to weigh charges to the individual kernel of powder.

Accuracy, as I define it.

Resolution??

Therein lies the secret to low ES

With absolute control of ES one can then reasonably work on rifle tuning and accuracy.
 
Normmatzen said:
Scales, repeatability and accuracy.

I started with two different beam balances, one oil damped and one magnetic. I added one of those cheap Lee scales and damned if it wasn't the most consistent!

As I shoot long range BR, I wanted the most consistent load I could get. So, I got a Gempro and it is indeed a very nice balance for the money. But, I didn't like the lack of consistency (that word again) in the tare reading. So, I took a gamble and bought an old Ohaus TS200 on ebay.
So, I started with beam balances, moved on to a strain gauge balance (GemPro) and finally gravitated to a Magnetic Force Restoration balance. And, I am happy.

Summaries: The Ohaus is no better or no worse than the GD503 or the latest $500-$1000 balance. They all have 1 mg resolution and 1mg accuracy and superb stability. By the way, 1 mg is about 0.015 gn. My balance reads in grams or grains, but on grains, it truncates to 0.02gn steps in least significant digit so I weigh my loads in grams for 0.015gn equivalent accuracy. So much for the consistency I wanted, all these balances offer 1mg repeatability and accuracy.

So, what about accuracy? I really don't care about accuracy as long as I get repeatability. Instead of buying a high quality 100g and 200g mass to use for caliberation that must be handled with gloves and stored in a temp constant environment, I had some masses with accuracy of 3mg for a 100g weight. I took two 100g weights and weighed them on my balance. I took the heaviest one and sanded the bottom with 400 grit paper till they both weighed exactly the same. Now I have two 100gram masses to NORM'S accuracy and I use them for caliberation.
And, my velocity sd and ES did improve!. Even better when I started matching bullet seating force!
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It is easy to make a comparison, but with out the GD503 sitting there and checking against it you have proved nothing…… I do weigh to the .01 or +-.005 and i do use a force indicator and ES runs around 4…… I don't believe in guessing,or it's good enough….. Jim O'Hara
 
I think some of you mis-read my reply.

Of course, accuracy is important. But the accuracy we need is consistency and as I mentioned, I use two 100g masses a single one to calibrate linearity and both to calibrate full scale. these are "1" level masses and are not too expensive. The industry tolerance for these is 100g +/- 0.003g. When I weigh to the granule of Varget or H4831sc, that is as close as I can get. I still have 0.001g or 1mg accuracy of stability and consistency, but +/- 0.003g due to my calibration masses. Still way better than the 0.015-0.02gn increments of a granule of powder!

And, ALL the decent Magnetic Force balances have 1 mg accuracy. Still better than 0.1gn for the old beam balance! And the stability of tare is way better than strain gauge balances.

If you don't think consistent loads are not important to me, come out and shoot with me sometime!
 
You are missing the point….. You just assume you scales are this accurate, because you have nothing that can measure finer than += .01. I can measure 10 times finer than you think you can with the GD503, +=.005 Does it make a difference, I can look on the wall and see 5 reasons why i can say yes……… jim O'Hara
 
Jim,
You are still not grasping what I said.

My Ohaus TS-200 is guaranteed accurate to 0.001g on the 200g full scale accuracy. The stability is also 0.001g as is the drift. Both the 503 as well as the one that is in favor now (can't remember the model) are 0.001g accuracy balances.

If I switch my balance to grains. it reads to 0.00 gn and on grams it reads to 0.000g. However, on the grain range, it increments the least significant digit by twos, or 0.00 to 0.02 to 0.04 etc. As 0.001g is approximately 0.015 grains, on the grain range the balance is incrementing in approximately 0.001g steps. I weigh on the gram scale so my least significant weight is 0.015 gr where it would be 0.02grains on the grain scale.

As to absolute accuracy, my balance is accurate to 1mG or 0.015grain. My masses are within 3mG or 0.045grains, but they are a constant. that means I weigh with respect to "Norm's Grains" as my masses may be off , but the pan to pan accuracy is still 1mG. Actually, I have a set of tiny weights made by one of the popular reloading equip. companies, and when I put weights of 33.0 grains on my balance it indicates 33.00gr. Good enough for me, as I don't care what your 33 gr charge weighs, I just use Norm's grains for mine and they are always the same.

Bottom line, neither of us is getting any closer to our goal with granules weighing 0.015 to 0.02grains than approx 0.02grains worse case. Of course, you could group the cases with slightly high , right on and slightly low, but you still are not that accurate as your, and my, balance is only accurate to 1mG or 0.015grain!

If you still don't believe me, check your manual.
 
I think you are missing a 0 the GD 503 weighs in .005 not .015. I can weigh powder to +=.005 or .01GR. not gram……… and these scales are certified …….. jim
 
kdvarmint said:
My Weigh GemPro 250 may be in my near future. Anyone using one?
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I did use one, two if you count the replacement one they sent me. To me they were too much work, constant drifting and constant recalibration. Finally got a A&D FX 120i from Cambridge and absolutely love it. It cut my weighing time way down by not have to mess around so much while weighing but the best part is the reduction in frustration. Cost is higher was $400 a while back but now I heard it went up to over $500 at Cambridge which was the cheapest place to buy it. I gave my GemPro to a friend who used it but after he tried my FX 120i he got rid of the GemPro and bought a 120i. Some people like their GemPro but I have used both and there is no comparison.
 
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