Minimum age for unsupervised hunting/licensing?

Spring Turkey 08

A Minn. man took his young son (8-10yrs.)old hunting,they were on stand and spotted some birds.But the birds started to move away from them,so dad told his son to stay put and he (dad) would get in front of the Turkeys and get 1. Sometime after the dad left the son followed,the dad heard a noise saw a dark shape and fired. the dad heard the scream and knew what had happend.he carried his son to the road called 911, waited for authorities. Upon arrivel they found a couple of open 12 packs and some pot ,tests showed all in his system. Another thing (1) he did get picked to purchase a tag but never bought it. (2) he never had permission to hunt the land (Private) that he was on. This was the 1st Fatality for Turkey hunting in Minnesota since it began in the mid 70s. The anti-Hunting press has had a field day with this, so has the local school District (not allowed to post FAS class posters in Schools). BTW anyone born on/after 1/1/80 must have a FAS certificate in order to hunt in Minn. FAS is taught to 11yr olds and up. age to hunt alone (with parents permission ) is 14yrs.
 
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As a point of interest a guy I know in St Louis asked awhile back if we'd heard about the truck driver who was talking on his cell phone, didn't notice that traffic in front of him was stopped, and ran into the stopped traffic. Two people were killed as I remember. Nothing on the national news, nothing in the local news, but you can bet your last nickely that if the guy had walked into a truck stop or someplace else and shot a couple of people it would have been all over the news.

One accident or one crime where a gun is involved is just the thing that the news media loves to show everyone that all gun owners are careless bums or criminals by implication. :mad:
 
I agree, outdoors people should be aware of the hunting seasons and dress for safety or find another venue at that time. I alway's made sure my children wore blaze orange and their playmates too, in areas where hunters were, during the hunting season. I live in the city so it's of little concern here. I am sorry to hear of the tragic demise of that lady, it comes to me on a day when a bar-b que is being held for a beautiful little 5yr. old girl who was riding a ATV with her older sis, and lost control hit a tree and the baby was killed, a local story, probably won't make it out of the county, heaven forbid if it was a firearm incident, kadie bar the door!
Think about this 250,000 deer tag's sold 140,000 deer harvested, maybe 3, accidental self inflicted gunshot wounds, maaaybe, 1 accidental death either by shooting or heart attack.
Now press/media or anyone tell me where 250,000 guy's can get together doing anything, fartin and drinkin beer, playing cards, eating lil'smokies, pizza, nacho's, hotwings and watching football, running a "marathon"playing softball, golf, nascar, you name it, and come out of it all with less fatalaties than a typical hunting season here in America ! it ain't gonna happen ,takin into account the small percentage of "morons" who by the grace of God make it through the season not harming anyone or getting killed by their own carelessness, I rest my case !....;)
 
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Bill Wynne said:
Al,

How do you become a certified Hunter Safety Instructor? I think that several of us might find the time and we might make a difference.

Concho Bill
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Bill,


Around here it's like Roger T says...... contact Fish and Game. Here in WA you go through a training program (free), are deputized by the Game Dept and are required to donate your time for a minimum number of hours/classes per year. Around here the WA Dept of Fish and Wildlife is incredibly supportive of Hunter Education. The state has a solid budget, mainly generated by the Pittman Robertson tax, and we instructors are well supported. There is ZERO monetary incentive, it's completely volunteer but it really is a rewarding way to spread the word. Our state will provide all literature, line up places to teach, even supply firearms and ammunition. The hardest part is the paperwork. The kids are fun, the teaching portion is interactive and stimulating, the work starts after the kids are gone.

Go for it Bill........ future generations will thank you :)


al
 
Rewards

As Al said the job doesn't pay well (NONE) but the REWARDS are PRICELESS.My first students are having kids going through my (our)classes now and it's a great feeling to have the parents say that they still follow those lessons that they were taught so long ago :D:D......BTW Minn. gives a small REWARD every 5 yrs of service 5yrs a Gift Pen,10yrs a Belt Buckle,15yrs a Pocket Knife,20yrs a Wildlife Print,25yrs a Better Wildlife Print:)....But it's the STUDENTS that are the BIGGEST REWARD:D:D:D:D..................Also the classes are open to all ages, we get alot of Moms an Dads that take the class with their kids as a Refresher or because they never had the class before. We had a Very SPRY 73 yr old GREAT GRANDMA take it this past spring with her GreatGrandDaughter and was amazing in the field excersizes, so for those in that AGE bracket BEWARE you've got compitition;)
 
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I have a good shooting friend who has the need to build rifle for each of his son's and grandson's and lead them into shooting sports at a very young age whether a strong interest is in them or not. Of course most children are fascinated with guns as we all were as kids. Being a supporter of shooting is a great thing, but we must realize that knowledge and experience in the handling and operation of a firearm does not replace the judgment and maturity that comes with age. Saying it does, doesn't make it so. Many 12 year olds could be taught to fly a 747 due to their dexterity, intelligence and hand/eye coordination, but that does not mean they have the maturity to hold the lives of hundreds of people in their hands. Some people's own enthusiasm for shooting sports overpowers their judgment and they rationalize their own need to see their small children shooting by stating how well they've been trained, but maturity and life experience creates good judgment. At least, if you are going to have young children shooting they should at minimum be very, very closely supervised.
 
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The first question we ask our students is( Who do you hunt with?),They say Dads ,Brothers, Moms, Family ,Freinds, GPa, GMa etc. Then we ask what would they do?,how would they feel ? if they shot and killed or mamed that person. The LOOK on their faces Young and Old is something. As far as Maturity (AGE) goes it does play a part in this process, BUT if you don't RESPECT the FIREARM and what it does you have NO BUISNESS with a firearm. Frankley that applies to alot of MACHO types running around this Country, They have no Respect for the Firearm and that's what gets people KILLED. I tell our students not to worry about their First Buck etc. enjoy being out with family ,freinds etc.thats what it's all about. About 40% of our classes are women/girls (25-30 each class) they pay way more attention to the Ins. and are better students .They don't have that I KNOW IT ALL ATTITUDE alot of guys have (BEEN THERE):eek:. I tell the class about a Sheep hunt in BC I was on aways back ,cost a HUGE sum (for me anyway) I never fired the Rifle, was it worth it ? EVERY PENNY best hunt I ever had.:p:D
 
Mr. D said:
I have a good shooting friend who has the need to build rifle for each of his son's and grandson's and lead them into shooting sports at a very young age whether a strong interest is in them or not. Of course most children are fascinated with guns as we all were as kids. Being a supporter of shooting is a great thing, but we must realize that knowledge and experience in the handling and operation of a firearm does not replace the judgment and maturity that comes with age. Saying it does, doesn't make it so. Many 12 year olds could be taught to fly a 747 due to their dexterity, intelligence and hand/eye coordination, but that does not mean they have the maturity to hold the lives of hundreds of people in their hands. Some people's own enthusiasm for shooting sports overpowers their judgment and they rationalize their own need to see their small children shooting by stating how well they've been trained, but maturity and life experience creates good judgment. At least, if you are going to have young children shooting they should at minimum be very, very closely supervised.
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Someone who " has the need " to build a rifle for his offspring has his own issues unrelated to the needs of the kids.


I have to somewhat disagree with the statement that "of course most children are fascinated with guns". Kids raised in a healthy, safe, rewarding and FUN hunting/shooting home are no more "fascinated" by guns than by the family sedan. We use driving to illustrate many of our points re guns and shooting...... we intend for our graduates to look at firearms as tools, just like a car. If a kid is "fascinated with" and wants to go out and sneak around and fiddle with the car (or with firearms) then he won't pass our tests. (hopefully :rolleyes:) We won't let a kid through the class until we're comfortable walking down a trail with the kid behind us with a loaded rifle.


And while we advocate parental supervision we also prepare the kids for the inevitable arguments with their elders. Our worst nemesis is "Uncle Butch" the storytelling Uber Hunter from camp who considers himself to be above the rules. We have far more problems with uneducated and attitude filled ADULTS than with the kids. So we prepare them for it, right in from of the parents. (We also ask the parents to sit through the entire class.) There are parents who not only won't sit thru our classes will furthermore try to re-teach the kid after he leaves! We literally give the kids license to call us and ask for support. The incidence of argument has dropped precipitously over the years we've been teaching this :D

In just over 30yrs of observation and training I'm aware of more accidents involving adults and their attitudes than those involving kids. Kids are wicked smart and attentive. In our experience the highest accident ratio occurs in those between 17 and 30.

An acquaintance of mine was one of these "adults", supposedly tempered by age and maturity. While hunting with his 14yr-old nephew the nephew asked for help crossing the fence. They argued. Finally the 14yr-old gave in and did an unassisted crossing where he unloaded his firearm, slid it under the fence safely and then crossed on his own while the "adult" fumed. The adult then proceeded to shoot and kill his little hunting buddy while crossing on his own. The adult was 20yrs old.

The reason that WA dropped its age limit to "has valid Hunter Safety card" was because we've earned a reputation for safety.

One thing that WA does NOT have is the "deer camp ritual" mindset where the kid looks forward to being old enough to go out to hunting camp to drink and carouse with the guys ........ We teach hunting for the sake of hunting and teach ZERO tolerance for alcohol.


Anyway, I'm not trying to downplay parental supervision, nor to argue with the fact that age brings maturity. BUT, we've found that early training is an effectual method. Early training allows maturity to bring wisdom instead of compensatory attitude. We actually fight ATTITUDE more than ignorance IME.

Get their attitudes right when they're young and they'll grow into responsible adults.

In the meantime, we never assume that because a person is old they're mature.


al
 
My kids...

alinwa said:
Someone who " has the need " to build a rifle for his offspring has his own issues unrelated to the needs of the kids.


I have to somewhat disagree with the statement that "of course most children are fascinated with guns". Kids raised in a healthy, safe, rewarding and FUN hunting/shooting home are no more "fascinated" by guns than by the family sedan.

al
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....walk by a gun I'm working on or taking pics of in the living room like it was a broom or dirty dish. They do understand that messing with Daddy's guns is like sticking your hand in the bbq fire. Not a smart thing to do. They have been overly warned about this but I think they have just been around them so much, there is no curisoity. It is their friends coming over that concerns me more. I just lock myself in the work room or put everything up when other kiddos come over.

Neither one of mine have shown any interest in shooting or hunting thus far. Disappointing for me but they are still young.

pf
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Why do you ask Hovis? You're referring to the post about banning hikers?

Or was there another one?

Who called it politically incorrect?

al
 
My guess is...

HovisKM said:
Was my post that harsh and non-politically correct????
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...the poster you refered to probably whined to the super moderators:)

I thought it was cool about you flying before driving. My Dad was the same way....he has some good stories too.

pf
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I'm sorry but ACCIDENTLEY pulling the trigger dosen't cut it in my book,neither does SCOPEING game that's what field glasses are for.If your not 100% sure of your target and what's beyond you NEVER bring the FIREARM up.Call it what you will Buck Fever etc.if you don't teach the Stalk & Enjoyment of the outdoors (NOT the taking of the animal ) (that's secondary ) and tell uncle Butch or brother Bob that I'll shoot when it's safe your going to continue to have TOO MUCH PEER PRESSURE to make a bad choice.That's bad for all of us.
 
Paul Fielder said:
...the poster you refered to probably whined to the super moderators:)

I thought it was cool about you flying before driving. My Dad was the same way....he has some good stories too.

pf
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I guess your right....one thing I learned....when I got drivers lincenes, there were a lot more things to run into...:eek::eek:

Hovis
 
For those who don't know why I posted about the politically correct thing. I had a long post with real world details of gun handling by adults in the military, muzzle safety, having pilot lincenes before drivers lincenes and that all kids aren't poor gun handlers. But I guess someone cried foul and got the post deleted. I also talked about how more kids drown in swimming pools every year than killed by the mishandling of guns, so what should we ban??? hunting, guns or swimming pools. I thought we were on a forum about shooting but I guess I stepped on a liberal.

Hovis
 
Dad says...

...chicken don't have too many feathers left if they forgot their chutes:- That one always made me giggle as a kid.

He also says deer hunters don't like you flying low over their hunting areas....said he was certain they were not waving.

pf
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There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but no old bold pilots.

That was the first thing I saw the very first time I went to the airport for training. I know there are some exceptions to that rule but they all have hair raising stories but most of those Oh Sh*t stories are told second hand if you know what I mean.

Hovis
 
My GrandDad was a barn stormer...

HovisKM said:
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but no old bold pilots.

That was the first thing I saw the very first time I went to the airport for training. I know there are some exceptions to that rule but they all have hair raising stories but most of those Oh Sh*t stories are told second hand if you know what I mean.

Hovis
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...to earn a little extra $$$. He crashed showing off one day and turned it upside down in a farmers field. I don't know if he ever got in another plane since. He also was an instructor during WWII which kept him out of combat.

Dad quit flying right after college and most of his stupid stuff was during high school....He only had one oh sh*t story trying to land during a storm but the rest were just ding-dong pranks like flying over the girls dorm & goofing off like I stated.

I certainly had no business flying at that age. I might not be around to tell them stories:)

I'm still amazed by them and love watching "Dogfights" on TV & how the plane developed. If interested, PM me your email and I'll send you a cool vid w/ some jets right at the sound / sonic boom mark....cool stuff.



Sorry about the hijack guys!! I know TX has a state law on being alone while hunting but that does not mean a kid is ready. No one matures the same. I can name lots of minors I'll hunt next to w/ out a worry but also know 1 or 2 adults I won't stay at the range with much less go hunting!!

pf
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Update on Man shooting Son

The 40 yr old man was sentanced Mon. 8/25/08 to 30 days in jail,10yrs.probation 80 hrs. of community service each of the next 5yrs.to include speaking about Hunter Saftey. Blood alcohol at scene was .06 (state limit is .08) pot in system( pipe in car) He plead guilty to 2nd degree manslaughter June 19. Charges of Reckless discharge of a Firearm,Tresspassing,and hunting Turkey without a liscence were dropped
 
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