Military sight picture.

K

kansasvet

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I have a step-grandson that is considering joining the military and I am all for it. I am encouraging the Marines but it will be his choice.
I have AR-15's and an AR-15 carbine that he can shoot to learn proper sight hold and in general to familiarize himself with the operation of the standard issue weapons.

When I was in the Navy we used the Navy hold, which is to split the bull with the front sight. The theory being that it made it easier to hit mostly hidden targets, such as the top of a persons head not behind cover.
Then there was the Army hold which set the bull on top of the front post.

I need to know what the various services are using for a sight picture so that I may start him off doing it right according to the military.
 
When my husband (Marine) taught me to shoot, he had me use a "six o'clock" hold at two hundred yards (for bullseye targets) and a "center mass" hold at 300 yards (for bullseye targets). The reasoning behind this is that: with a 300 yard zero, the round will strike approximately 6" high at 200. Therefore, without making a change to the sights, centershots could be achieved at both 200 and 300 yards.

Of course on a combat target, center mass is always good.

Lisa.
 
The answers you will get will be interesting, especially when some of us older guys can see how things have changed.

I did my qualifying with an M-14, (1968), which of course had a rear peep and a front post. We centered the top of the post in the rear peep, and placed the top of the front post on the center of the bull.

I hope you get some good responses to your post..If your Grandson does go through with it, we can all wish him the best of luck...........jackie
 
Might not be a good idea. The marines will teach him the current marine way.

Chuck.
 
I agree that he needs to be taught in the manner that the service of his choice uses, but he needs some experience with peep sights and how accurately one can shoot with them.
I saw a lot of people shoot and especially if excited with about a 20 to 30 degree elevation of the barrel. I suspect they were not looking through the peep but over it.
 
The current marine corp and army sight picture are the same. The marines have a much better marksmanship training program than the army but the army has made strides in improving theirs in the last few years.

The sight picture is: Post centered in peep, post centered on target. The marines used to teach the six O'clock position which in some instances seems better. But after the all the combat experience had been anaylized, the six O'clock sight picture was determined to cause many low misses. This is because the the heavy trigger pull under stress, will usually result in muzzle drop. Thus, the percentages are better at center mass.

One of the hardest things to learn, without being shot/killed. Is the quick shot. This is really what you should be training as it is the hardest. Having the weapon shoulder with the muzzle slightly down, draw up and fire at targets (while also flipping the safety off) up to 50yds without focusing mainly on the sights and then flipping that safety back on when neutalization of immediate targets is suspected. Most people in combat are accidently shot because of failing to do what I said in that last sentence. Soldiers will leave the rifle on semi/auto while running, if they trip or fall and they will more than likely still have their finger on the trigger and tighten their grip as a natural reflex and POP...buddy gets one. Also, a weapon slammed to the ground without the safety on has a probabilty of firing.

The very next thing to teach is muzzle safety, even though it seems the simplist and the most common sense, it's also the most laxed of safety precautions and thus leads to accidental firing.

I could tell stories all day long on guys I've seen accidently shoot friends or themselves (mainly through the foot or leg).

80% or more of the time I was shoot/killed during exercises with MILES gear was by friendly fire. Most of the time because someone tripped.

Hovis
 
The Army does not currently teach maksmanship using a bullseye in either Basic Training nor Infantry Training. They teach marksmanship on a Silhouette target.

Here is a link to the FM
http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/FM23-9.pdf

This should actually answer your question about the army side.

Unlike Hovis I have never been killed by friendly fire.
Ted
 
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All Guns............

are always loaded. Always.....:eek:

Never point the gun at something you don't intend to shoot.

Keep the trigger finger outside the triggerguard until you're ready to shoot.

Always be sure of your target, and what's behind/around it.
 
The most common problem found in new shooters in the military is fear of the gun and lack of familiarity with firearms and safety.
Focus on teaching him not to flinch and being comfortable with weapons. A little ballistics is always helpful. This will go a long way.
 
I agree with Vern's statement.
Also the most common problem found with shooters AFTER they enter the military is unfamiliarity with their weapons.
Because remember. The infantry only makes up about 10% of the Army.

Ted
 
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
I had not thought of the snap shooting practice and think it is a good idea.
It appears the primary lessons will be safety, familiarity with the weapon, and accuracy. I just don't want to
get him started on any bad habits.
 
I have to disagree with the statement "Also the most common problem found with shooters AFTER they enter the military is unfamiliarity with their weapons.".

This may or may not be true for the Air Force and Navy, however, for the Army and Marine Corp, this statement just does hold true anymore. I won't go into how the Marines addressed this even further (they had less of a problem to begin with) but the Army took many steps during the 2000-2010 to address this problem.

1. Extension of Basic Training by two weeks. This extension was to focus on battle necessities not limited to but includes: better marksmanship, IED, Small Unit Contact, Convoy Operations and hand to hand combat. Even live fire exercises at some.

2. Advanced Individual Training also functions as an extension now of Basic Training, with training to include many things outside of the Technical Portion of the MOS. Multiple field exercises, etc.

3. Train up for deployments – for 60 to 90 days minimum, units are focused on training for their specific deployment rotation. Most Active units go through JRTC or NTC and NG/Reserves go through mobilization training. All of these include live fire exercises.

We have to remember now that the current US Military is the most combat experienced military that we have ever had. Do problems still exist, yes, but they are no where near what they were 15 yrs ago. Most of the lessons have been learned the hard way, which is the biggest shame of all.

Hovis
 
kansasvet said:
Thanks to everyone for the replies.
I had not thought of the snap shooting practice and think it is a good idea.
It appears the primary lessons will be safety, familiarity with the weapon, and accuracy. I just don't want to
get him started on any bad habits.
Click to expand...

If you have access to the AR and a 92F, learning to clean and maintain is always a good thing. For the last several years I spent in the service, I had my own additions to the cleaning kit. One was the Sinclair tool that spaces and hold the upper and lowers apart and a bore guide. I wouldn't take this stuff to Basic or AIT though. Here is what I would focus on.

1. Maintanance
2. Muzzle Safety
3. Weapon Safety
4. Trigger Safety
5. Quick shot (open sight and with optics DOT & Scope)

Hovis
 
Hovis maybe I didnt phrase it quite right.
My reference to AFTER is after signing the paper. AS in when they first get to boot camp.
By the time they graduate most are acceptable.
You would be surprised at the number of guys who were afraid the charging handle was going to come back and break their nose.
Or afraid it was going to kick to hard.
I remember one class where a DI put the weapon on his forehead and pulled the trigger.
 
Vern,

Your absolutely right about new recruits. When we did live fire lane excercises in boot camp at Ft. Jackson (I believe the range was called Omaha Beach). A guy actually wet himself when we locked and loaded because he was so scared. I don't think it helped any that a female a couple of days before was killed on one of the lanes (two person bunker assualt lanes).

Hovis
 
While you're at it, go over a number of times the proper way to clear a jam with both the AR and a 1911 if you have one. This NEEDS to be 2nd nature especially with the pistol since that muzzle moves around a lot when you're "investigating." This will also impress the DI... not.
 
Except none of the regular military carries the 1911 anymore. Only some of the ops units.
 
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