Mid tuner centerfire?

[Tim Singleton]

I'm sure someone has tried them.
How did it go? Will say a papas style with rubber inserts stay in place on a ppc ? I didn't know if it would slip

 

[Tim Singleton]

Would a mid tuner even be legal in nbrsa ?

 

[mwezell]

I'm sure someone has tried them.
How did it go? Will say a papas style with rubber inserts stay in place on a ppc ? I didn't know if it would slip

The first centerfire "tuner" that I played with wasn't really a tuner at all. It was a brass ring that I taper bored to fit the HV contour barrel I had on the rifle at the time. It slid to about an inch in front of the stock. The most amazing thing it did..was it stayed on the barrel! I had my doubts. Lol!

Anyway, it did show me, to my satisfaction, to "change" the way the gun shot and I do believe there was some benefit...where it was. Before you laugh, consider how many Sims De-resonator fans are out there. There is something to it but it's near impossible to adjust accurately. I think the same applies to commercial mid barrel tuners used in rimfire.

Anyway...that's what took me down the muzzle mounted tuner path and I won't be looking back. I'm 100%, lock, stock and barrel, convinced that muzzle mounted tuners do work and are easily and repeatably adjustable. Frankly, other than weight issues, I don't know why every single serious shooter doesn't use one, on every rifle they shoot. Weight issues can be resolved...Build a gun that you can use a tuner on if you have to.

 

[JerrySharrett]

The first centerfire "tuner" that I played with wasn't really a tuner at all.

Anyway...that's what took me down the muzzle mounted tuner path and I won't be looking back. I'm 100%, lock, stock and barrel, convinced that muzzle mounted tuners do work and are easily and repeatably adjustable. Frankly, other than weight issues, I don't know why every single serious shooter doesn't use one, on every rifle they shoot. Weight issues can be resolved...Build a gun that you can use a tuner on if you have to.

Somewhere on this site is a pic of several barrels I turned to bring the weight down to just over 3# 8 oz to make LV weight. There were taper turns, Mauser Steps and some others.

In the 2005 season I shot tuners through all the shoots in NBRSA, which had recently approved tuners and including IBS who had made a almost legal rule. The IBS temp ruling was that a tuner could be used as long as it did not exceed the HV dimension. Jim Borden helped me design that monster..7" long and a tapered lock nut.

Scott Fudd Hamilton contacted me in January of 2005 and proposed that if I would design a CENTERFIRE suitable design he would make some. At that time the Fudd tuners ruled rimfire. Scott being a gunsmith and Civil Engineer bought a CNC lathe to make tuners. I still use a Fudd on me 10.5# Myers rimfire and a 17# 600 yard LG.

TUNERS will change the personality of a barrel . If that barrel is way out of its natural tune it can make a big improvement, otherwise a CF tuner is just something else to add to the variables of tuning.

Rimfire tuners on rimfire are a must since the ammo is pretty much fixed. Oh, you can get a tuned rimfire barrel for about $3,000, but hey...Calfee stays busy now.

As to tuning a CF every one needs to give it a go. Looking down the line at the recent Shamrock,tuners everywhere!

Cute tuner story. George Kelbly and Paul Gotshal made a 5# tuner that fastened to the barrel with one clamp bolt. It was a brass wagon axel bushing or something the like. George still has that boat anchor in his attic.


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[mwezell]

If that barrel is way out of its natural tune it can make a big improvement, otherwise a CF tuner is just something else to add to the variables of tuning.

Rimfire tuners on rimfire are a must since the ammo is pretty much fixed. Oh, you can get a tuned rimfire barrel for about $3,000, but hey...Calfee stays busy now.


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Thanks Jerry! We agree until the quoted part. I do not believe tuners add another variable. Rather, I consider using one to maintain tune much easier than with powder charge, seating depth, neck tension, etc. Not only does a tuner that adds mass and/or leverage, widen the tune window..it can be used to extract whatever potential that a given load has, in a given rifle and in varying conditions.
I firmly believe traditional tuning methods are far more complicated than maintaining tune with a tuner. I began testing tuners a little later than you...in 2007. I never stopped and after this time, I've learned a lot. Also in this time, there has been a swing in what methods of adjusting a tuner are best. Gene Beggs did some testing in his tunnel and concluded what I've been saying for a while now to be true...That being, that as little as .001" of tuner travel does in fact matter on the target. The single most common mistake people make with tuners is they move them too far. That's very understandable when there were so many varying instructions and advise. We're all learning together and are much better off now than only a year or so ago, as a whole. I've often wondered how people came to certain values to move a tuner in. Ask one guy and he says 5 marks..ask another and hear 1/4 turn...another will tell you full turns..and it goes on and on. With every single tuner that I've tested, all of those examples would be wrong...both RF and CF.

Also, I do not believe that the natural frequency is a constant at different temps... and of course we have combustion sensitivity to conditions to deal with as well.

Just because a barrel has a fixed tuner, be it locked or integral, does not equate to a tuned barrel IME. If it did, the rimfire shooters wouldn't carry multiple lots of ammo to the match or even the bench. That's merely doing the same thing as tuning with powder charge, etc.

Would you mind sharing how you went about using your tuners back then?

Thanks!--Mike

 

[jackie schmidt]

Would a mid tuner even be legal in nbrsa ?

The rule book does specifically say "muzzle attachment". We all know what the "muzzle" is.

But, that being said, I bet if someone showed up with a tune further up the barrel, they would let it slide.

That is, untill he, or she, won

The rule could easily be changed by substituting "barrel" for "muzzle".

I might bring that up at our Gulf Coast Region Meeting.

 

[JerrySharrett]

Thanks Jerry! We agree until the quoted part. I do not believe tuners add another variable........................



Also, I do not believe that the natural frequency is a constant at different temps... and of course we have combustion sensitivity to conditions to deal with as well.

Just because a barrel has a fixed tuner, be it locked or integral, does not equate to a tuned barrel IME. If it did, the rimfire shooters wouldn't carry multiple lots of ammo to the match or even the bench. That's merely doing the same thing as tuning with powder charge, etc.

Would you mind sharing how you went about using your tuners back then?

Thanks!--Mike

OK, a shooter can change the powder, adjust the powder amount, select a different bullet design, change to another diameter, adjust the jam or jump, change the primer, then turn the tuner. If this last element is not another variable I can't count.

A given barrel will only shoot to a certain accuracy. It can't shoot a negative group size.

I used the tuner to FINESS the maximum accuracy I could obtain by the traditional tuning components.

True, a tuner can bring some accuracy to an out of tune load/barrel that could be tuned by changing powder, bullet seating, etc. And some shooters use the tuner adjustment tool instead of one of the other component changes. But this has limits, and you will not get the maximum accuracy of the tuning exercise.

One trouble with tuning a centerfire, the barrel, as it gets shot, is constantly changing within its 400-2000 shot life cycle.

My recommendation on tuners, with the tuner installed and in a mid part of its adjustment, use the conventional components of tuning, then adjust the tuner to see if the load accuracy can be finessed. (I.E. the last option not a major component of the tune cycle).

One thing a shooter will find while using different design and weight of tuners, a tuner behind the muzzle will react different than a tuner that extends beyond the muzzle. (AND, a tuner under about 10 ounces total weight will not get you as much change as one over about 10 ounces.)

Beware too, a tuner that is threaded to the barrel and secured with a jam nut will react different than a clamp-on tuner. A clamp-on, tightened too much, say over about 65 in/lb can totally KILL accuracy!!


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