Match fees ... Are they too high?

A

abintx

Guest
I just got off the phone with the NBRSA business manager. We discussed their annual financial requirements for member clubs and the daily shooter fees that they collect.

Clubs are charged $50 per year to register with the NBRSA and are required to submit only $2 per day per shooter for a registered match.

If a club charges $50 per day per shooter, which some do, that's $48 per day that goes to the club. Based on the original $2, a profit of an additional $2 would represent a 100% markup. I'll let you do the math when it gets to $50. Needless to say, it's HUGE.

I realize clubs need to make a profit, and that targets and backers need to be replaced and various other maintenance projects performed. However, in today's economic environment, if shooters are showing loyalty to the sport by traveling long distances to compete ... we had four from Houston and two from Dallas last Sunday, no small distance [and some must, to compete at all], plus hotel/motel and food expenses, does it make sense to charge large entry fees?

$100 for a two day event is a lot of money. We charge only $10 per day in Austin for a registered match [to keep costs down we do not employ outside groups or individuals to remove and hang targets ... a few of our shooters perform those tasks on a revolving relay basis]. Personally, I do not mind pulling down and hanging targets if that contributes to lower costs and increased participation.

What do you think? Is it reasonable in today's world to advocate smaller fees, and, would lesser daily entry fees encourage more shooters to participate? Your opinions please. :)
 
Denton Charges $25 per day for club matches and I agree it's too much!!
 
I applaud the efforts of all match directors and think most of them do a great job. I don't know all the economics of running a match, but I know targets (for group anyway) costs a lot and the price for them is rising. I just hope match fees don't get too much more in response. The cheapest match fees I payed last year were $75 for the weekend and the most expensive was $100. That kind of dough makes it hard to tip the target crew what they deserve.:(
 
match fees

I'm of two minds on this issue and can argue either side. But, we spend hundreds on travel, food, lodging, consumables and thousands on equipment. Then we expect our hosting venues to provide us a nice experience for the match including volunteers who might not even shoot themselves, all on the cheap. Most outfits know what it takes to keep the grass cut and the lights on, certainly more than we casual observers do. I think sometimes we ask alot. Thanks to the folks that provide a place to meet and compete.

Greg
 
Benchrest is an expensive sport, not as expensive as most, but still it takes money to compete. If the clubs do pull a profit for a match I'd like to see either more money awards or some pretty nice prize tables with powder, bullets, actions, etc. However i don't think that Benchrest is at the level of having manufacturers and business donate large amounts of freebies to the prize tables because the market is so small.
 
Last edited:
fees?

I have been running NBRSA registered matches for the last four years here in Reno, Nv. The costs to our club are outrageous. We have to pay plenty for the use of the County range plus all of the above mentioned maintenance fees, NBRSA fees and we also still pay the target crew, as voluteers are few and far betwixt! We consider ourselves fortunate to clear $500.00 for hosting 4-5 matches each year. Awards DO CONSUME alot of our dollars, otherwise we would be somewhat more profitable. For the most part we are quite happy to have a range close by to hold the matches! Good luck to the many match directors that put on and up with the toils of this labor of love! We do NOT do it for the $$$, that's for sure! Be well, shoot well............ Jan Sarras
 
Let a lone the cost of trophys. A two gun weekend runs between 20 and 40 individual awards. These can cost anywhere from $10-15 each and many times more. For small turn outs we are loosing money and the general membership of the clubs is looking at taking back what used to be the usual benchrest weekends. Up here in Canada if we complain about match fees too much We just might have nothing to complain about.
We have trouble finding target crews and do take turns changing targets. If we had to pay a reasonable wage to have it done for us it would cost alot more than it does now.
I think $40-50 a day is good value for my money. Try a round of golf, dinner and a movie, heaven forbid shopping with the wife. My wife anyway.

Rob Seemann
 
Completely disagree....

abintx said:
I just got off the phone with the NBRSA business manager. We discussed their annual financial requirements for member clubs and the daily shooter fees that they collect.

Clubs are charged $50 per year to register with the NBRSA and are required to submit only $2 per day per shooter for a registered match.

If a club charges $50 per day per shooter, which some do, that's $48 per day that goes to the club. Based on the original $2, a profit of an additional $2 would represent a 100% markup. I'll let you do the math when it gets to $50. Needless to say, it's HUGE.

I realize clubs need to make a profit, and that targets and backers need to be replaced and various other maintenance projects performed. However, in today's economic environment, if shooters are showing loyalty to the sport by traveling long distances to compete ... we had four from Houston and two from Dallas last Sunday, no small distance [and some must, to compete at all], plus hotel/motel and food expenses, does it make sense to charge large entry fees?

$100 for a two day event is a lot of money. We charge only $10 per day in Austin for a registered match [to keep costs down we do not employ outside groups or individuals to remove and hang targets ... a few of our shooters perform those tasks on a revolving relay basis]. Personally, I do not mind pulling down and hanging targets if that contributes to lower costs and increased participation.

What do you think? Is it reasonable in today's world to advocate smaller fees, and, would lesser daily entry fees encourage more shooters to participate? Your opinions please. :)
Click to expand...

Running most sanctioned NBRSA or IBS matches is expensive! Targets, mailing brochures, target and scoring help, trophies, and range use, are just the more obvious match costs. I think the fees charged at the national, regional, state, and local matches I have attended over the years have been very fair and I'm grateful that the people involved take the effort to do it. Running a sanctioned match is no easy task. Try it sometime on a continuing basis.:rolleyes: Because of their continuing escalating cost, I've dropped awarding trophies at my matches and everyone seems OK with that.

Maybe I'm alone here, but I don't even think about match fees when thinking about attending. Mostly it's the drive distance. If it's within 1200 miles, I'll probably attend. If not....well...maybe not.

Truth be known if I thought the match fees were to expensive, I'd think about taking up that very inexpensive sport...golf.;)

Virg
 
Last edited:
You Try It

abintx,
Not trying to flame you, but I've been there. If you would step up and be a match director, you would see where the money goes. IMHO
 
Match fees

Targets are now double. trophys are now double for us.
Plus all of what Virg said.
The clubs aren't getting rich'
It takes a whole month just to prep for a registerd match.
 
For my matches all proceeds go to purchasing the targets (500 for each yardage = $200), trophies for the year ($500-550), food ($100/tournament), tips to the target crew (that's right, Joe if you want to do it again this year there will be something in it for you), and at the end of the year we will have a bar-b-que paid for with the proceeds from the previous matches. Anything left over will go to the club who is most generous in allowing me to run these matches without any monetary obligation.
My matches run with volunteer power, and without them I would have to raise fees. It is actually quite an inconsequential amount considering the equipment we use, and it is part of what makes this sport great. No one is making a living running matches...they are born out of the love of the sport at least for me.

$15/gun per yardage $5 for breakfast and lunch, friends who get together and love to shoot...priceless!
Mike
 
Mike
You know I'll pull targets for ya. This is the first I ever heard of tipping the target pullers. No Thanks. I pull targets because I want this new shooting venue you provided for us to suceed. Somebodys gotta do it and your Mom will trade compliments for an extra X now and then (only kiddin bout your Mom):D
I'd be very surprised if you pocket a nickle at the end of the year. If the fees need to go up you won't hear a grumble from me. I'm not a good enough shooter to justify traveling long distances which costs more than range fees.
A quick slink home suits me just fine:D
 
Fees

We charge $15 for the Tomball Club Matches, that helps pay for targets, (six to each shooter), the awards, (nice ribbons), and for this year, a nice "250" hat pin for those who shoot clean. As Match Director, it is my decision as to the Entry Fee. I think $15 is fair.

The club does make a little profit, it depends on how many shooters we attract.

For the Registered Matches, the cost goes up considerably, mainly for the Target Crew, (shooters can not change targets in a Registered Match), and the cost of the awards befitting a Registered Competition. There are also fees for the official scorer, the person that runs the computer, and the NBRSA.

The main thing is that the Club does not loose any money. We barely break even on the Unlimited and HBR Matches, the Crawfish does ok. We do give a considerable donation, (and I do mean considerable), to the Boy Scouts that act as target crew and clean up crew. But, if the Matches start costing the Club too much, gtghe Board of Directors will just put a stop to it.

Putting on Matches is a lot of work. The main reason more Clubs and Ranges do not have Matches is no body is willing to do anything. We are fortunate at Tomball that we have quite a few Shooters who are willing to lend a hand........jackie
 
Gtm ...

GTM said:
abintx,
Not trying to flame you, but I've been there. If you would step up and be a match director, you would see where the money goes. IMHO
Click to expand...

No flame involved. I'm just asking a question ... to see what the consensus of opinion is on this subject. As a matter of fact, I just received my NRA Range Safety Officer Credentials a few days ago. I went after it in December, with the intention of helping Virg out by running matches when he's out of town. You have to be a certified Range Safety Officer at the Austin Rifle Club to run a match.

What's interesting, is that the comments so far, have not centered on what's being done to REDUCE costs, but only explanations as to why costs are what they are. If Virg Howarth and Jackie Schmidt can run a match for $10 and $15 respectively, why can't the rest?

There's no doubt this is an expensive sport. The one thing that we don't want to happen is the day when the only shooters left, are those who can discuss the current status of their herd of polo ponies between relays! :D
 
Never recover the costs

It's been ten years since we started our club, and with the building 20 concrete benches and pouring 1200 sq ft of concrete, along with the building of twenty sets of traget frames with steel deflector plate, we still haven't recoved the start up cost. We need an average of 12 shooter shooting 6 targets each, to just cover the range fees. It's never enough money to do it all.
 
Our club brakes even most year's! Last year 3 classes at 2 yardages cost a total of 60.00 for the weekend. We loose money on those matches 60% of the time. At the provincials or nationals we charge 15.00 per match per ydge. so it costs 60.00 for a two gun match. That usually shows a bit of profit which is usually enough to hit the break even point. We don't care about making money and I am sure a lot of the clubs in the States are the same. We like to try and keep the competitions going as with out them we really wouldn't need a covered firing line, a club room and cement benches, that the rest of the club members enjoy for 351 days a year.
 
Tony Gauthier said:
We like to try and keep the competitions going as with out them we really wouldn't need a covered firing line, a club room and cement benches, that the rest of the club members enjoy for 351 days a year.
Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth! Our benchrest club has made almost every improvement at our local range with hardly a thanks from the regular members. But they sure like our improvements even if they don't say so.;)
 
$3000 for a rifle, $1000 plus for a good scope + dies, brass, bullets,etc... c'mon. I don't think that $50 is out of line for the work that a club puts into a match. Personally I am surprised that it is kept as reasonable as it is.
 
Attendance

Increase attendance and after time this will help the clubs increase revenue then maybe decrease cost. We need more shooters, there are alot of people that are second guessing the AR issue with the IBS, but you have to give them credit for trying to increase the shooters at the bench. And maybe we should invite the Varmint shooters to attend the IBS matches as well. So why are you bitching about $100.00, increase attendance which will maybe lower cost and keep the ranges in business so that we can shoot. So let's stop the BS and increase the shooters so that will all can enjoy this sport for many more years to come or you can complain about the $100.00 and do nothing about it and have nowhere to shoot in the near future.
Russell
 
Last edited:
The largest cost reduction...

abintx said:
What's interesting, is that the comments so far, have not centered on what's being done to REDUCE costs, but only explanations as to why costs are what they are. If Virg Howarth and Jackie Schmidt can run a match for $10 and $15 respectively, why can't the rest? :D
Click to expand...

The biggest cost reduction I made was the elimination of trophy awards. The cost of trophies ran about $450-$500 per year. My costs are cheap because I do not pay the official score keeper (me), no one runs the computer because I do it by hand (until I get home), and no fee is paid for the match director (me). I pay no target crew because as if by magic a couple of volunteers appear after each match to set up targets.:p However, there are a few shooters who really like trophies, especially new shooters. Most of the experienced shooters just file them in a box in the garage when they get home.

But...let me be very clear...I do enjoy big matches that do provide trophies, food, etc. And...I'm willing to pay for it. I have never been to a major match where I heard serious complaints regards the entrance fee.

Personally I believe the lack of new young shooters in our sport is the lack of the commitment and discipline that most of the shooting sports demand if one is to excel. This is not a sport that one can buy their way into the winners circle. Also, there is no big money to be won, and no big paying endorsements to land. And if these items did exist...such as $100K awaiting the winner, the friendly advice and camaraderie would soon disappear. I can imagine one asking the winner what 6ppc load he/she used and getting the answer, " oh, 29grs of Bullseye works great.":eek:

Well...on to the next match; love'em.:)

Virg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top