OK, truth time. I do tap my rest in at matches, for one reason only.
Most of us right-handers seem to position our rests in more or less the same spot. Most of us, at a match, mark where the legs go. But marking isn't exact. By tapping the rest together with marking, I can get the rest back in the same spot -- my spot, not someone else's -- relay after relay. Adjusting the rear bag is then easy.
It's a sort of check on things. If the rifle isn't on target, or real close, I know I may have a problem. If the rifle doesn't point where I expect it to point, time to start looking.
I guess, but do not know, that you could mark superfeet pretty closely. But it wouldn't take much difference to make you go through the match-one setup routine every time.
Most of us right-handers seem to position our rests in more or less the same spot. Most of us, at a match, mark where the legs go. But marking isn't exact. By tapping the rest together with marking, I can get the rest back in the same spot -- my spot, not someone else's -- relay after relay. Adjusting the rear bag is then easy.
It's a sort of check on things. If the rifle isn't on target, or real close, I know I may have a problem. If the rifle doesn't point where I expect it to point, time to start looking.
I guess, but do not know, that you could mark superfeet pretty closely. But it wouldn't take much difference to make you go through the match-one setup routine every time.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Absolutely not. I would settle for a no hammering rule. Anything that gets the job done is fine with me. The same benches were poured a Fresno and Visalia. Visalia has benchrest matches, Fresno does not. The Fresno benches are pretty much as poured, except for evidence of one pistol AD. I am not saying that this should be an NBRSA rule. I think that it should be handled at the range level. What I am trying to do is raise awareness that bench tops do not have to be damaged to shoot well, and that the additional equipment needed to accomplish this goal is available , inexpensive, and works. I know that there are rail shooters that slam their uppers into the stop when running fast, and I am having a conversation with someone who knows a lot of shooters to see if we can find one that has a good record with his rail to do a demonstration with. We might even do video. Basically, this is a sales and awareness thing for me, not a shove it down their throats whether they like it or not thing.
Boyd
Boyd
Ohh yeahhh......... grab that market eh! 2-300 people, a profit margin of 5 or 6 dollars..... SOMEone's makin' out like a fat rat if this goes thru!
Maybe see superfeet ads in the Superbowl this year
goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
So you are saying that rail guns won't shoot up to their potential off of superfeet? Seems like if that were true, all the other things done to minimize vibrations would not apply? Forgive me, I do not shoot a rail gun so I don't know. But it seems I've seen some mighty fine shooting with rail guns perched on superfeet.......
I would suppose that myself and Keith Gantt "slam" the rail gun forward as much as anybody. Not that our intent is to slam it but in our frenzy to get our shots fired the rail may strike the stop once or twice a bit harshly. You can't shoot like that unless you are confident that your rail won't move. Allan Hall advocates looking before every shot but I believe if you're lookin', you're losing. More on this below....
One thing the superfeet might have going for them raigunwise is this - When you pound your rail in you have to bang it against the stop until it settles "forward" into the holes you just made and stops moving. If you fail to catch the top on recoil and it hits the stop traveling rearward you have to stop, look and reorganize. If superfeet will hold it in both directions that would be the cat's meow.
More from above...
Allan Hall tells a story of how his rail gun started moving and cost him big because he didn't look. Since then he has advocated looking every shot to detect movement. I agree if your rail style is other than a suicide run. If you are taking 2 seconds beyond loading, returning and shooting then by all means LOOK. On the other hand (talkin' big hand here), if you've got a good condition those 2 seconds add up to 18 over a ten shot group and that's unacceptable. OK, Allan had a big group because his rail moved. I'm thinking why make the rest of your groups over a lifetime potentially larger by making sure your rail didn't move again.
I'm hoping that Allan won't get the opportunity to say "told you so"....and...trust me that nothing I have said here will change Allan's mind one little bit.
One thing the superfeet might have going for them raigunwise is this - When you pound your rail in you have to bang it against the stop until it settles "forward" into the holes you just made and stops moving. If you fail to catch the top on recoil and it hits the stop traveling rearward you have to stop, look and reorganize. If superfeet will hold it in both directions that would be the cat's meow.
More from above...
Allan Hall tells a story of how his rail gun started moving and cost him big because he didn't look. Since then he has advocated looking every shot to detect movement. I agree if your rail style is other than a suicide run. If you are taking 2 seconds beyond loading, returning and shooting then by all means LOOK. On the other hand (talkin' big hand here), if you've got a good condition those 2 seconds add up to 18 over a ten shot group and that's unacceptable. OK, Allan had a big group because his rail moved. I'm thinking why make the rest of your groups over a lifetime potentially larger by making sure your rail didn't move again.
I'm hoping that Allan won't get the opportunity to say "told you so"....and...trust me that nothing I have said here will change Allan's mind one little bit.
Boyd Allen
Active member
The late Butch Fisher made an unique piece for his rail base to sit on. It was a piece of industrial rubber belting, with cord inside like a tire, that was larger than the base of his rail. He milled recesses into its top, that fit stainless disks that had cones cut into their tops to match the leveling points of his rail base. He glued the disks into their recesses, using the base as a fixture to precisely locate the disks, and to apply pressure while the glue dried. I spoke with him about this a number of years back. Evidently this made the rail quite secure on the bench, did not weigh too much, and with it in place, the rail performed well. This all goes back a number of years to when this issue was being discussed and I believe it was Del Bishop that mentioned Butch's setup to me, and I gave him a call to get the details. A friend had Butch build him a bench rifle, and later bought a couple that he had used to compete with, one of which had been used to set a state record. The workmanship was excellent on all of them.
Bill Wynne
Active member
You can buy all types of new conveyor belts by the foot. I have had to buy one at a local place that sells all types of bearings and shafts. They have to order them and they have samples of the materials so you can know what you are getting. The new material is more pliable than the old wore out kind that you might find at a concrete company. A short piece would be affordable and possibly cost less expense than a set of super feet.
Don Nielson
New member
No
Bill Wynne
Active member
Good question. It would not think it is part of the rest. It might as well be a part of the bench.
As Don wrote - No, but it's time to re-think that IF clubs are gonna disallow hammering. The no clamping rule is there, I believe, so that everyone will have an opportunity for their rail to move. Agree or not, allowing clamps would significantly change the unlimited class.
I read the current NBRSA rule and found that you can clamp a block in front not to extend past the front and use superfeet - that's it.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Wilbur,
You might want to ask Lou about whether Super Feet work on a rail. You know all of that testing that was done for Berger....
I believe that he is of the opinion that a clamped block is not needed with them. Like a lot of things, tuners for instance, there are a lot of opinions that have no basis in experience, and as with tuners, I think that opinions that are based on mere conjecture should be valued as such.
Boyd
You might want to ask Lou about whether Super Feet work on a rail. You know all of that testing that was done for Berger....
I believe that he is of the opinion that a clamped block is not needed with them. Like a lot of things, tuners for instance, there are a lot of opinions that have no basis in experience, and as with tuners, I think that opinions that are based on mere conjecture should be valued as such.
Boyd
Boyd:
One man's success doesn't translate into a universal solution. For example, many things can be done with mass alone, which doesn't make it a "solution." (Not saying that's how Mr. Murdica gets things to work, just an example).
* * *
I'd also point out that the original posted said
Now "Superfeet" is, best I recall, a brand name. That's not a requirement I like. Moreover, as stated, the requirement applies to all rests with sharp points, whether or not those points are tapped in.
That means if I have a conventional rest, which will have sharp points, I can't use it at all, even if I just set it on the bench. Or so it would seem.
If a club is going to come up with such a requirement, they should spell it out in general terms.
And yes, I have a set of the late Dave Dohrman's Superfeet. Don't particularly care for them. Clubs have to do what they think best. I'll do as Mr. Nielson suggests & choose the ranges I'll shoot at.
YMMV
One man's success doesn't translate into a universal solution. For example, many things can be done with mass alone, which doesn't make it a "solution." (Not saying that's how Mr. Murdica gets things to work, just an example).
* * *
I'd also point out that the original posted said
Now "Superfeet" is, best I recall, a brand name. That's not a requirement I like. Moreover, as stated, the requirement applies to all rests with sharp points, whether or not those points are tapped in.
That means if I have a conventional rest, which will have sharp points, I can't use it at all, even if I just set it on the bench. Or so it would seem.
If a club is going to come up with such a requirement, they should spell it out in general terms.
And yes, I have a set of the late Dave Dohrman's Superfeet. Don't particularly care for them. Clubs have to do what they think best. I'll do as Mr. Nielson suggests & choose the ranges I'll shoot at.
YMMV
Boyd Allen
Active member
Although I certainly don't know for sure, I think that it is highly probable that the use of Super Feet has become like Crescent
Wrench. or Vice Grips. I also notice that in the NBRSA rule book has correctly mentioned disks, and describes their function, mentioning that they are sometimes called "super feet". The disks that I prefer were not made by Dave, although I have some of his smaller ones. Perhaps all that is needed is that someone ask the club in question to clarify their rule in a way that allows all of the variations that the NBRSA accepts, including the one piece sub bases that are used with John Lowe's rests.
Wrench. or Vice Grips. I also notice that in the NBRSA rule book has correctly mentioned disks, and describes their function, mentioning that they are sometimes called "super feet". The disks that I prefer were not made by Dave, although I have some of his smaller ones. Perhaps all that is needed is that someone ask the club in question to clarify their rule in a way that allows all of the variations that the NBRSA accepts, including the one piece sub bases that are used with John Lowe's rests.
Eddie Harren
Member
I've often wondered why the "unlimited" class has so many limitations.