making .30 118/124gr bullets on 1" J4 - ram stroke at core seating ??

OliveOil

OliveOil

Active member
Considering a .30 cal bullet in the 118 / 124 grains range built on a J4 1" jacket, what is your ram stroke in between :

- just making contact on the uncompressed core,
- core properly seated.

I understand that stroke will change depending on core OD, jacket mouth angle, lead bleed, but I would like to have an idea of that lead compression stroke length. Thanks.

Oliver.
 
OliveOil said:
Considering a .30 cal bullet in the 118 / 124 grains range built on a J4 1" jacket, what is your ram stroke in between :

- just making contact on the uncompressed core,
- core properly seated.

I understand that stroke will change depending on core OD, jacket mouth angle, lead bleed, but I would like to have an idea of that lead compression stroke length. Thanks.

Oliver.
Click to expand...

Since I am quite the novice at bullet making, I am curious as to what you are asking.
 
I'm sure your question makes perfect sense to you but like Jackie, I can't tell exactly what you're asking. Please clarify your question a bit.
 
It would vary according to the dia. of core used, A larger dia. would need less length to fill jacket. so there's not a good answer.....
 
OK Gents, please forgive my poor English. Gonna try to ask in other words.

So, considering core seating ,


Place a jacket fitted with a core on the punch. Gently pull the press lever until you feel a first contact, aka jacket base on one side and un-seated core on the other side are making contact with their respective punch/ejector. No stress applied yet, no strain either, just contact.

Let's call this point "ram position A".

Then, acting on the press lever, so moving up the ram, so compressing/expanding core and jacket, one gets a core seated jacket. Let's call this point "ram position B".

What is the distance between A and B, considering a .30 118/124 on j4 1" ?
 
geo.ulrich said:
It would vary according to the dia. of core used, A larger dia. would need less length to fill jacket. so there's not a good answer.....
Click to expand...

Thank you Mr. Ulrich,

I understand there is no absolute accurate answer, too many variables here. But once the right core seating punch is selected, just to have an idea about it, is it close to 1/10" or close to 1/25" or what ?
 
I don't believe anyone i know or have shown do it the way you are trying to do. If you want to discuss further please send me a p.m. I am not interested in getting into this online.....
 
OliveOil said:
Thank you Mr. Ulrich,

I understand there is no absolute accurate answer, too many variables here. But once the right core seating punch is selected, just to have an idea about it, is it close to 1/10" or close to 1/25" or what ?
Click to expand...

measurements are irrelevant.
You want the jacket to leave the punch. And stay in the die. And be ejected.
If jacket stays on punch. Screw die in. Till it stays in die....inspect inside core for uniform lead bleed by. It should be a very small amount. But, the same amount around the inside of jacket.
Some people pop their jackets. Not a good thing on Carbide dies. Might break carbide ring.
I was told to stretch jacket .005-.008".
Any other questions just call George. Nice guy.
 
The four things I want in core seating:

1) It comes off the punch
2) It swages up to the final dimension or within a ten-thousandths of final (ex - 0.3084")
3) Small bleed line on the top edge
3) The jacket length shrinks. Ex - on a 0.925" .30 cal, they drop around 0.917".

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
OliveOil said:
Considering a .30 cal bullet in the 118 / 124 grains range built on a J4 1" jacket, what is your ram stroke in between :

- just making contact on the uncompressed core,
- core properly seated.

I understand that stroke will change depending on core OD, jacket mouth angle, lead bleed, but I would like to have an idea of that lead compression stroke length. Thanks.

Oliver.
Click to expand...

Before I say anything else - either call, e-mail, or, PM George Ulrich (see his post - #8 - above).

I understand your concept, and believe it good logic, however, for the reasons (& and more) which you point out (red), only for getting into the stadium. I'm not going to bore you with my methodology, as I can't take the public ridicule.:pRG
 
R.G. Robinett said:
Before I say anything else - either call, e-mail, or, PM George Ulrich (see his post - #8 - above).

I understand your concept, and believe it good logic, however, for the reasons (& and more) which you point out (red), only for getting into the stadium. I'm not going to bore you with my methodology, as I can't take the public ridicule.:pRG
Click to expand...

Yea, That public ridicule thing is a bummer......
Randy is a good bullet maker. And it's hard to get him off the phone......Nice guy.....:cool:
Thanks for your help there Randy....It was a few years back.....
 
R.G. Robinett said:
Before I say anything else - either call, e-mail, or, PM George Ulrich (see his post - #8 - above).

I understand your concept, and believe it good logic, however, for the reasons (& and more) which you point out (red), only for getting into the stadium. I'm not going to bore you with my methodology, as I can't take the public ridicule.:pRG
Click to expand...

Randy, don’t forget the chicken foot and incense burning;)

Seriously, on George’s advice, I followed your method. It takes some careful measuring and patience, but it works.

And then there’s the right punch diameter. ........darn, where did I put that chicken foot.:rolleyes:
 
What Zippy wrote:

"measurements are irrelevant.
You want the jacket to leave the punch. And stay in the die. And be ejected.
If jacket stays on punch. Screw die in. Till it stays in die....inspect inside core for uniform lead bleed by. It should be a very small amount. But, the same amount around the inside of jacket."
 
jackie schmidt said:
Randy, don’t forget the chicken foot and incense burning;)

Seriously, on George’s advice, I followed your method. It takes some careful measuring and patience, but it works.

And then there’s the right punch diameter. ........darn, where did I put that chicken foot.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yeah - I wore out a few rabbits feet, crow skulls/bones, and rubber chickens! :p
George makes great dies, knows how to, "get it done", and is very generous in sharing his knowledge. And it's repeatable!!:eek:;) I do like the OPs (OliveOil's) concept, which would be pretty good for, "getting close" - I never thought of that!:eek::cool: RG
 
Gentlemen,

Thank you for all the above information and your patience in understanding my poor English.

I fairly understand what I would call a "final result" in your explanation about irrelevant measurements and cored jacket staying in the die and all the "classics".

I will be a beginner in bullet making within a few weeks. So I do not have (yet:p) a core seating punch collection gently waiting for use.

At the moment, my point is to "come close" to the true core seating punch diameter to avoid to much trial and error and multiple machining/honing/lapping cessions to reach the right punch dia.

I am lucky enough to have a barrel that shot 135 gr and 124 gr with great success, so "reverse tuning" by going to 122gr or 126g should not be a problem, if needed.

I am not dreaming anyway. Next jacket batch, next 2 or 3 new core seat punches and so goes the collection on :rolleyes:...



Mr. Robinett :

I still remember this night (my time:p:p) we partly spent on the phone when I was having trouble with my HBR gun / seating Burger bullets. That was in the early 2000's and I was probably the first to import your .30 10cal 124 in Europe at that time. That was through Sinclair, and that was in the Good Ol'Time, even if some French bullet maker (7 O) threw me stones beause I was breaking his retirement plan.

Did you know your bullets take age like a good French wine ?? Due to work, I had a loooong BR break, but in 2016, I blowed the dust off the boxes and shot a second place at France Championship 200 meters stage. Thank you !!

I already PM'ed Mr. Ulrich. He was very kind in his explaination and will send me some additional info.


As far as I understand Mr. Schmidt #14, there is a "RG's Special" method to "come close". I am very much interested, you bet.
 
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