Loss of Accuracy After Annealing

[Lee Martin]

I ran a little trial this summer after reading-up on annealing. Using a 6 BR (0.268" neck, 0.0015" total clearance) and Lapua brass on its 10th reload, I annealed half. The other half were left as is.

Results - the groups opened-up on the annealed for the first 1 - 2 firings, then slowly came back and shot great. The unannealed returned similar, yet consistent groups throughout. Over the chrono, the annealed gave slightly lower velocities, but also slightly lower extreme spreads (yet the groups grew....go figure). All of this was done at 100 yards, so perhaps the results would be different farther out.

Other notes - annealng was done on a Bench-Source machine with 700 degree Tempilaq. As for the loads, I'm shooting LT and aim for 0.0025" neck tension.

Now there's nothing scientific about this trial. Certainly not enough to drive me to hard conclusions. I understand the benefits of annealng for case life and like the practice. But for consistency sake, if I were to anneal I'd do it after each firing.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

 

[bill123]

... I understand the benefits of annealng for case life and like the practice. But for consistency sake, if I were to anneal I'd do it after each firing.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

Basically my experience as well. IF others have had this same experience, then I don't understand how people can advocate annealing after 3 firings or so. That seemed like a lot of wasted shots if the groups are openng up for 2 firings. I may try load dev. on freshly annealed brass to see if I can get a decent load. Then try annealing after each firing.

 

[michaelnel]

Ever since I got my BenchSource annealing machine I have been annealing after each firing. Bullet seating has become ever so consistent, and my groups have definitely decreased in size. I'm sold on it. Yeah, it's kind of a PITA to insert yet another step into my brass prep, but with the results showing on paper, I am willing to keep doing it.

 

[bill123]

Ever since I got my BenchSource annealing machine I have been annealing after each firing. Bullet seating has become ever so consistent, and my groups have definitely decreased in size. I'm sold on it. Yeah, it's kind of a PITA to insert yet another step into my brass prep, but with the results showing on paper, I am willing to keep doing it.

Michael,
Interesting. Did you find that after annealing your groups opened up and that you had to redevelop the load of did the load stay the same?

 

[michaelnel]

Michael,
Interesting. Did you find that after annealing your groups opened up and that you had to redevelop the load of did the load stay the same?

Groups didn't open up or stay the same, they got smaller.

 

[bill123]

Groups didn't open up or stay the same, they got smaller.

Sorry. I didn't word that well. I developed a load at first with once fired Laura brass that I had not annealed. After 3 firings I annealed the brass and tested that load with the newly annealed brass. With that load, the groups opened up. I'm wondering if you had a similar experience or was your original load development done with brass that you annealed.

 

[Markhor]

Sorry. I didn't word that well. I developed a load at first with once fired Laura brass that I had not annealed. After 3 firings I annealed the brass and tested that load with the newly annealed brass. With that load, the groups opened up. I'm wondering if you had a similar experience or was your original load development done with brass that you annealed.

Are you shooting Short range benchrest or long range? It seems that the long range guys are benefiting from anneling while the short range guys are not. Is their someone shooting short range & annealing after every firing?

Ed

 

[bill123]

Are you shooting Short range benchrest or long range? It seems that the long range guys are benefiting from anneling while the short range guys are not. Is their someone shooting short range & annealing after every firing?

Ed

Short range. Not benchrest. I'm a prone shooter. I never tried the annealed brass long range because the short range groups were so bad.

 

[Lee Martin]

I shoot short-range benchrest. This thread has peaked my curiousity, so once I finish my PPC I'll re-run my trial. I'm thinking of starting with two lots of newly formed Lapuas. The first 50 will be annealed after each firing, the other won't. I'll shoot both batches in the same day, under similar conditions, and with same loads. It won't be perfectly controlled and as always I'm the weakest link. But it may be fun to see what shakes out.


-Lee
www.singleactions.com

 

[Greyfox]

Short range. Not benchrest. I'm a prone shooter. I never tried the annealed brass long range because the short range groups were so bad.

I could be mistaken and this is not an accusation. But based on my experience it sounds like you are going past the temp when things get soft (really technical term here). You can get the temp too high and it takes a couple of sizings and expansions or firings to get things back to consistency. People have lots of different ideas about annealing and most of them are mistaken. If you don't get each case the same you make a mess. If you don't get them hot enough you are wasting your time. If you get them too hot they get soft and have to be worked until they will hold again. If you aren't using a machine and not using templac for the correct temp you are guessing and probably not getting it right. If you are doing all these things correctly.........never mind

Rick

 

[bill123]

I could be mistaken and this is not an accusation. But based on my experience it sounds like you are going past the temp when things get soft (really technical term here). You can get the temp too high and it takes a couple of sizings and expansions or firings to get things back to consistency. People have lots of different ideas about annealing and most of them are mistaken. If you don't get each case the same you make a mess. If you don't get them hot enough you are wasting your time. If you get them too hot they get soft and have to be worked until they will hold again. If you aren't using a machine and not using templac for the correct temp you are guessing and probably not getting it right. If you are doing all these things correctly.........never mind

Rick

Hi Rick. Thanks for the reply. I am using a benchsourse and 700 tempilaq for the neck and 400 for the body. I had extensive conversations with the benchsource manufacturer about size of flame, distance from neck, time in heat, etc. he talked me through the process a few times. I described what the cases looked like after annealing and be assured me that I got it right. It is certainly possible that I Overannealed but after all the time I spent with the mfgr, I've ggot to think that If he couldn't talk be through it, the process is nearly impossible to get right. That said, I've never annealed anything before. I'm going go try redeveloping the load w annealed brass and see if that works.

 

[bill123]

I shoot short-range benchrest. This thread has peaked my curiousity, so once I finish my PPC I'll re-run my trial. I'm thinking of starting with two lots of newly formed Lapuas. The first 50 will be annealed after each firing, the other won't. I'll shoot both batches in the same day, under similar conditions, and with same loads. It won't be perfectly controlled and as always I'm the weakest link. But it may be fun to see what shakes out.


-Lee
www.singleactions.com

Lee, I look forward to hearing your results. Bill

 

[Greyfox]

Hi Rick. Thanks for the reply. I am using a benchsourse and 700 tempilaq for the neck and 400 for the body. I had extensive conversations with the benchsource manufacturer about size of flame, distance from neck, time in heat, etc. he talked me through the process a few times. I described what the cases looked like after annealing and be assured me that I got it right. It is certainly possible that I Overannealed but after all the time I spent with the mfgr, I've ggot to think that If he couldn't talk be through it, the process is nearly impossible to get right. That said, I've never annealed anything before. I'm going go try redeveloping the load w annealed brass and see if that works.

Bill,
Sounds to me like you probably got it right. Like I said......never mind

Rick

 

[michaelnel]

\was your original load development done with brass that you annealed.

No, my load was developed before I started annealing after each firing. However, I was annealing manually with a drill and a torch, but only after 4-5 firings. Since getting the Bench Source annealing machine, I anneal after each firing and the load I developed prior to doing that shoots smaller groups now.