B
benzy2
Guest
I have begun reloading for .223 here of late and seem to really enjoy it. The problem I have is that my only .223 rifle (or anything CF I want to shoot at the range all day) is an AR-15 and while the accuracy isn't bad it isn't the fun I want from a bench gun. I seem to be getting from 1 MOA on the best groups to 2 or so MOA on the larger ones (with the load that seems to shoot the best). This really isn't bad for a $600 AR with a 14x scope tossed on the top. The real problem I run in to consistently is that while it can be made into a real shooter there isn't a good bench style trigger available for anything less than maybe half the price of the gun itself. The the uppers get expensive quick and it doesn't fit my rest real well and it just isn't what I want to spend all day shooting from a bench. It is a ton of fun to shoot fast with and a ton of fun to turn a bunch of fruit into smoothies but that is about it. Im also not dead set on getting another .223 but it seems to be a great round. It gives good accuracy, little recoil, great barrel life, and seems to have a boat load of different components to try in case you want to try any different style of shooting.
So that leaves me looking for a decent "low" end CF bolt action rifle to play with at the range. I have looked at a bunch of different options here and get a bit confused in where I would end with each route.
I started my research with Savage. I am a big fan of their accutriggers and while not a real bench trigger they are as good as it seems I could expect from a factory trigger or and aftermarket one costing less than $100 or so. They also seem to shoot well. Being on a bit of a budget I looked at the 12FV. The heavy barrel seems to get good remarks in accuracy and it is local for about the $500 I was looking to spend. I like the idea that I can easily swap barrels down the road as well. The problem I see here is the stock. They seem worthless. I don't think enough epoxy in the world could make that thing close to sturdy. So a new stock looks to add at least another $100 if I go to the BVSS or get say a B&C stock. That puts me a bit over my budget. Im also buying the heavy barrel to not have to put a different barrel on later. If Im swapping the barrel and stock out I may as well just get one of their target actions for about what the FV costs and turn it into a longer term project. At the same time though being able to swap a Shilen barrel in for an extra 300 bucks and ten minutes of time does seem to be something hard to pass up. An $800 Shilen barreled accu-triggered rifle sounds like a TON of fun in the future and no slouch right now.
The next route was the Remington 700. Another staple in the CF market. Here the problem runs that I don't seem to feel overly confident in the sporter barrel's accuracy. Most of the comments I hear on the 700 is that they make a great platform to grow on. I don't really want to grow. If I'm dumping a lot of money into a gun Im going to go all out. This rifle isn't a platform to grow to me. It is something to get me through college until I am making good money in "the real world". The triggers seem ok on some of the models and in need of serious work on others which is a bit of a concern. It seems to get what Im looking for I will go a bit over budget which is again a big concern.
I have never been impressed by Ruger rifles for the money. I have been down that path with .22LR and regret all the money I spent. Im not looking to do that again.
So now I move to a little smaller company with a CZ 527. The set triggers seem great for what I want to play around with. I love the accuracy of the CZ 452 models I have. The gun just felt small and light. I know it is meant to be a hunting rifle first but it just doesn't seem overly set to be shot from a bench all day. The heavy barrel models seem like a ton of fun but again go a bit over my price range.
Then I looked at the Weatherby Vanguard. While the barrel isn't as heavy as I was hoping for it seems to be a decent shooter out of the box and a possible great shooter with a little work to the trigger and bedding the stock. They also seem to be on the heavy side of things which makes a nicer all day shooter. While .223 doesn't kick much at all every bit of help reducing that is good to me. It seems they can turn the gun into a guaranteed sub-MOA shooter by tossing a pillar bedded stock on it. I don't see them going through shooting all the guns in the regular stock, finding the best, swapping the stocks for the nicer ones, retesting that the guns shoot as well if not better in the new stock and then selling them. The Vanguard is priced too low to go through that much effort to weed out the good ones. They seem built like tanks and not much bad to be said. They are a bit under my price limit as well which helps. Then I thought just get a Howa and skip the rebadge and it gets unclear on what differences there are. I know they are based on the same design but it has been stated more than once that Weatherby sends Howa the specs they want the Vanguard held to and that they may be a better standard than Howa puts into the Howa branded guns.
The Tikka T3 was another option but they seem to have gotten a bit expensive (well from where they were) and only the light weight models fit my budget and we all know that isn't the best option for a bench shooter. I just don't know if I will get the gun I want with what I have to spend.
I had talked about getting a NEF handy rifle and sending it out to get stubbed and have trigger work done. It sounded like I could have a decent shooting (compared to the factory options I have been looking at) barrel put on along with a trigger I could enjoy shooting for about the price I was looking to spend when all said and done. Then I think more and more about it and don't think the break open would be any fun to shoot all day with.
I have looked at the Stevens 200 and it seems to be a good shooting sporter weight barrel. The more I read the more it was obvious it is just a Savage action with the pre-accutrigger on it and the old stock. At that point I think why save the few bucks and have to replace the trigger with say a Rifle Basix and have spent what I would on the current Savage option. Then I get back into the rebarrel option to get a better shooting tube on and then the new stock to go with the new barrel and Im back to just getting a target action from Savage.
I know there was one or two more I had looked at that had potential but for one reason or another just didn't seem right. Im not looking for a real amazing gun but with minimal effort (a little on the trigger and a bedding job) I really want to see at most 1 MOA average if not a little below that. I know thats a bit to ask from an inexpensive rifle but it seems doable with a bit of effort on my end and a loading the gun likes to shoot. If there isn't a route that can fairly reliably get me there for the money Im looking to spend I think I will just dump $500 into a decent bull barreled AR-15 upper with a free floated hand guard. I don't want to go through everything and have another rifle that shoots no better than the 1-2 MOA rifle I have now. I also know that for a little more money there will always be a little nicer rifle out there. I really don't want to spend much if any over $500. This isn't due to the fact I can't afford more than $500 but the fact that I can't justify it much to myself. Being in school money is a bit tight though Im not the poor college kid everyone seems to portray. I just at this point don't have the income to justify tossing a ton of money into something. I have the money if it will get me a worlds nicer gun but again there comes some point where the increase in accuracy just doesn't matter to the kid casually punching paper at the local range.
I think at this point I am leaning towards the Vanguard. It seems to leave the factory at worst a 1.5 MOA shooter with a bit of potential left in the stock/action fit and in the trigger. I have bedded half a dozen .22 rifles and they seem to have all shown good results afterwards. It may not be professional but it seems to work well for the money I end up invested. The Vanguard may not be the best rifle to buy and rebarrel later on or do a ton of additional work/customizing on but Im not looking to do anything much to this so it works for me. I have no real loyalty to try a new Weatherby out though so all logical opinions will definitely be considered in whatever direction that may be.
Sorry for such a long post (and a first post here at that) but I want it to be shown I have put a bit of thought into this and that it isn't just a new member wanting to know what the best gun out there is without thinking at all about what they want.
So that leaves me looking for a decent "low" end CF bolt action rifle to play with at the range. I have looked at a bunch of different options here and get a bit confused in where I would end with each route.
I started my research with Savage. I am a big fan of their accutriggers and while not a real bench trigger they are as good as it seems I could expect from a factory trigger or and aftermarket one costing less than $100 or so. They also seem to shoot well. Being on a bit of a budget I looked at the 12FV. The heavy barrel seems to get good remarks in accuracy and it is local for about the $500 I was looking to spend. I like the idea that I can easily swap barrels down the road as well. The problem I see here is the stock. They seem worthless. I don't think enough epoxy in the world could make that thing close to sturdy. So a new stock looks to add at least another $100 if I go to the BVSS or get say a B&C stock. That puts me a bit over my budget. Im also buying the heavy barrel to not have to put a different barrel on later. If Im swapping the barrel and stock out I may as well just get one of their target actions for about what the FV costs and turn it into a longer term project. At the same time though being able to swap a Shilen barrel in for an extra 300 bucks and ten minutes of time does seem to be something hard to pass up. An $800 Shilen barreled accu-triggered rifle sounds like a TON of fun in the future and no slouch right now.
The next route was the Remington 700. Another staple in the CF market. Here the problem runs that I don't seem to feel overly confident in the sporter barrel's accuracy. Most of the comments I hear on the 700 is that they make a great platform to grow on. I don't really want to grow. If I'm dumping a lot of money into a gun Im going to go all out. This rifle isn't a platform to grow to me. It is something to get me through college until I am making good money in "the real world". The triggers seem ok on some of the models and in need of serious work on others which is a bit of a concern. It seems to get what Im looking for I will go a bit over budget which is again a big concern.
I have never been impressed by Ruger rifles for the money. I have been down that path with .22LR and regret all the money I spent. Im not looking to do that again.
So now I move to a little smaller company with a CZ 527. The set triggers seem great for what I want to play around with. I love the accuracy of the CZ 452 models I have. The gun just felt small and light. I know it is meant to be a hunting rifle first but it just doesn't seem overly set to be shot from a bench all day. The heavy barrel models seem like a ton of fun but again go a bit over my price range.
Then I looked at the Weatherby Vanguard. While the barrel isn't as heavy as I was hoping for it seems to be a decent shooter out of the box and a possible great shooter with a little work to the trigger and bedding the stock. They also seem to be on the heavy side of things which makes a nicer all day shooter. While .223 doesn't kick much at all every bit of help reducing that is good to me. It seems they can turn the gun into a guaranteed sub-MOA shooter by tossing a pillar bedded stock on it. I don't see them going through shooting all the guns in the regular stock, finding the best, swapping the stocks for the nicer ones, retesting that the guns shoot as well if not better in the new stock and then selling them. The Vanguard is priced too low to go through that much effort to weed out the good ones. They seem built like tanks and not much bad to be said. They are a bit under my price limit as well which helps. Then I thought just get a Howa and skip the rebadge and it gets unclear on what differences there are. I know they are based on the same design but it has been stated more than once that Weatherby sends Howa the specs they want the Vanguard held to and that they may be a better standard than Howa puts into the Howa branded guns.
The Tikka T3 was another option but they seem to have gotten a bit expensive (well from where they were) and only the light weight models fit my budget and we all know that isn't the best option for a bench shooter. I just don't know if I will get the gun I want with what I have to spend.
I had talked about getting a NEF handy rifle and sending it out to get stubbed and have trigger work done. It sounded like I could have a decent shooting (compared to the factory options I have been looking at) barrel put on along with a trigger I could enjoy shooting for about the price I was looking to spend when all said and done. Then I think more and more about it and don't think the break open would be any fun to shoot all day with.
I have looked at the Stevens 200 and it seems to be a good shooting sporter weight barrel. The more I read the more it was obvious it is just a Savage action with the pre-accutrigger on it and the old stock. At that point I think why save the few bucks and have to replace the trigger with say a Rifle Basix and have spent what I would on the current Savage option. Then I get back into the rebarrel option to get a better shooting tube on and then the new stock to go with the new barrel and Im back to just getting a target action from Savage.
I know there was one or two more I had looked at that had potential but for one reason or another just didn't seem right. Im not looking for a real amazing gun but with minimal effort (a little on the trigger and a bedding job) I really want to see at most 1 MOA average if not a little below that. I know thats a bit to ask from an inexpensive rifle but it seems doable with a bit of effort on my end and a loading the gun likes to shoot. If there isn't a route that can fairly reliably get me there for the money Im looking to spend I think I will just dump $500 into a decent bull barreled AR-15 upper with a free floated hand guard. I don't want to go through everything and have another rifle that shoots no better than the 1-2 MOA rifle I have now. I also know that for a little more money there will always be a little nicer rifle out there. I really don't want to spend much if any over $500. This isn't due to the fact I can't afford more than $500 but the fact that I can't justify it much to myself. Being in school money is a bit tight though Im not the poor college kid everyone seems to portray. I just at this point don't have the income to justify tossing a ton of money into something. I have the money if it will get me a worlds nicer gun but again there comes some point where the increase in accuracy just doesn't matter to the kid casually punching paper at the local range.
I think at this point I am leaning towards the Vanguard. It seems to leave the factory at worst a 1.5 MOA shooter with a bit of potential left in the stock/action fit and in the trigger. I have bedded half a dozen .22 rifles and they seem to have all shown good results afterwards. It may not be professional but it seems to work well for the money I end up invested. The Vanguard may not be the best rifle to buy and rebarrel later on or do a ton of additional work/customizing on but Im not looking to do anything much to this so it works for me. I have no real loyalty to try a new Weatherby out though so all logical opinions will definitely be considered in whatever direction that may be.
Sorry for such a long post (and a first post here at that) but I want it to be shown I have put a bit of thought into this and that it isn't just a new member wanting to know what the best gun out there is without thinking at all about what they want.
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. They are not as easy to upgrade with aftermarkets products though as it is hard to find a stock inletted for a Weatherby
